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== Florida Honors ==

Do you think the Florida honors ought to be added to the honor counts?  I automated that a little while back so that we would know how many honors are in what category without having to go in and manually count them.  The new ones you have added are automatically added into those counts, so if you look, the Nature page now says it has over a hundred honors.  

The front page says that the wiki includes honors adopted at the division level and higher.  I don't mind including the FL honors here, because it's a good place to keep honors.  In fact, I think the wiki would be a great place to develop new honors as well.

So far we have not added the FL honors to the category pages, nor to the main honor index.  I'm not sure that we should just yet either, especially since this is an official NAD site, and the NAD has not approved these (though surely they must have been presented with the option?)

If we do not want the honors included in the counts, all we have to do is edit them and add "secondary=true" (not in quotes) after the honor patch in the honor_header template.

Thoughts?

--[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] 18:41, 7 August 2014 (EDT)

:I was not aware that only division honors and higher were adopted onto the site. I thought the wiki would be a good place to archive all requirements from around the world. I did not add the FL honors into the category pages or main index because I myself was not sure whether they should be included. I think a simple link on the main page to the FL Conference index would suffice. They would not have to necessarily be included in the main index. I honestly don't think the FL honors have to be added into the count. There are actually still a few I have not added yet. [[User:W126jep|w126jep]] 20:24, 7 August 2014 (EDT)

::That was a decision I made back in 2005 when I started the project at Wikibooks.  At the time, I was just trying to bound the problem, having no idea how many honors might be out there below the division level.  I think it's great to have them here.  What do you think of having a single index page for all honors adopted below the division level?  We could have icons to indicate where they originated and just lump them all into one place, and then throw a link on the main page to that index.  We could also put "Florida Conference" in the honor_header template to show the originating institution.  That would automatically categorize them. 

::To be honest, I think it would be good to have them in the index on the main page, but I don't know that the NAD committees would accept that.  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] 23:57, 7 August 2014 (EDT)

:::I think you might be onto something there. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to include them on the main index; of course, if the committee agrees. It would be ideal to have an index page with honors at conference levels. From what I've researched, only the FL Conference has a large selection of conference level honors. Other conferences might have one or two, but not as many as FL approved. It would still be nice to include them here in the wiki and it would be a great place to pilot them division or worldwide. It would be an easy way to present to the GC and pend approval. [[User:W126jep|w126jep]] 00:12, 8 August 2014 (EDT)
::::I have created a tiny icon for Florida.  I know that there will be a couple of conference-level honors being taught at Oshkosh next week.  I'll try to snag their requirements and we can get them in the wiki as well.  Maybe we should use something other than the FL_tiny icon for Florida - perhaps the Conference patch?  It wouldn't scale down of course, but maybe that would be OK.  The reason I suggest that is because though Florida's shape is obvious, other multi-state conferences will not be. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] 00:33, 8 August 2014 (EDT)
:::::Maybe something more like this: [[File:Map of USA highlighting Illinois.png|thumb|40px]] --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] 00:39, 8 August 2014 (EDT)
{{clear}}

::::I will be at Oshkosh also and try to snag some pictures of any new honor insignias. I have already compiled a personal list so I can know which ones I need to go check out. I will also try to record the requirements. Hopefully we can return from the trip with much to add to the wiki.

::::I see your point with the image. I'm not sure that last image works well for the different conference honors. Conference patches would be an excellent choice, but I don't know if we could find images for all of them. I'll ruminate and see if I can find or think up of any possible ideas. [[User:W126jep|w126jep]] 00:53, 8 August 2014 (EDT)
:::::Let me create one before we try to evaluate it.  The basic idea is to show the states in the conference with enough context that we know what we're looking at.  We might also try using a different color for conferences vs divisions.  As for conference patches, we'd only need images for the conferences that have honors.  I'm guessing that reduces the scope of the problem considerably.  Please continue to ruminate!
:::::If you want to meet up while at Oshkosh, send a note to me at jomegat@ my domain name which is jomegat.com.  Then I'll email my phone number and we can arrange a meeting via text or voice. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] 12:02, 8 August 2014 (EDT)

::::::How about just putting the word "LOCAL" (as a graphic) instead of a map icon.  If we are going to add in the FL Honors we should put a standard section at the bottom of the honor page that says: "Important Note: To obtain this honor patch contact the Florida Conference at http://www.flpathfinderstore.com/" Is CB Radio a FL or GC honor? [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] 00:45, 19 September 2014 (EDT)

:::::I think that sounds like an excellent idea. Also, CB Radio is not FL Conf., SPD & SAD honor manuals list it as GC. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] 07:10, 19 September 2014 (EDT)
:::::I like the revision you did on the main page, right on the money. Also, when do you sleep? You're a machine! --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] 07:26, 19 September 2014 (EDT)

== honor_desc ==

Thanks for repairing the damage.  The 'bot instructions for the insignia field were the most difficult, and it's obvious I missed something! --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] 13:27, 11 September 2014 (EDT)

== honor_desc_es ==

When translating the honor_desc template, it might be better to leave the variable names alone (those are the words in triple curly braces, like <nowiki>{{{honorname}}}</nowiki>.  When the page is viewed, the variable names should not appear at all.  When a page is translated, the variable names will still appear in English, but the translator presumably knows English, so that should be OK?   However, it is indeed a good idea to translate the stuff that's not in curly braces.

We should expect find find plenty of  problems with the templates... --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 20:01, 2 October 2014 (EDT)

:Gotcha. That way it would still show up in the correct categorical pages. This is my first time really experimenting with wiki language and tags, so I'm just trying to get the hang of it. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 20:53, 2 October 2014 (EDT)
::That's about the best way to learn.  If you have questions, don't hesitate to ask. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 21:05, 2 October 2014 (EDT)
:::I'm just trying to figure out now how to translate the part in the "Honors Sequels" that collapses and says "prerequisites". --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 21:15, 2 October 2014 (EDT)

==Transcluded Templates==

So I'm stuck on two things really. In order for me to translate, I have to "mark" it as ready to translate. I have tried everything I know to do so but transcluded templates, such as the AY Master, do not show up in the editing portion and I have no way to mark it for translation. Secondly, the SUBPAGENAME does not properly display the page name, since it puts "es", the language extension that is at the end of the page name. I can edit and translate the page names but the SUBPAGENAME tag will refer to the original source and put the English name. I'm trying to figure out how to make that work.<br>
Besides that, the rest is a breeze. It's pretty straightforward, just mark and translate. As soon as I know how to fix these two issues, I'll be able to start on the actual honors.<br>
I am assuming that the IA classwork will also be translated. The NAD has official requirements in Spanish and French, and I don't see any reason to only translate the honors and not the classwork. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 02:51, 3 October 2014 (EDT)

:Do you have to translate all the answers or are they machine translated and you need to fix them?  When we add an answer in English does it have to be manually copied to the other languages? [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 05:42, 3 October 2014 (EDT)

::There is no machine-translation - it all has to be done by humans.  When we make a change to an English page that has already been translated, it marks the section that changed as needing re-translation.  It does slice the content into smallish chunks though, so when a change is made to the source material, only a small piece of the translated material should need to be updated.
::As for SUBPAGENAME, yeah.  That's what drove honor_desc over honor_header.  We need to quit using SUBPAGENAME, or find one that recognizes "oh hey, that's the language, not the subpage" and reacts accordingly.  Maybe there's an extension for that.  I will dig into the transcluded templates when I can (but need to work on the day job right now). --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 10:34, 3 October 2014 (EDT)
:::OK, I might have a fix in place for the SUBPAGENAME problem.  Instead of using <nowiki>{{SUBPAGENAME}}</nowiki>, we should use <nowiki>{{#titleparts:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|1|3}}</nowiki>.  The "1" means show one element of the title, and the "3" means show the third element.  This assumes that we are working with the 3-tiered hierarchy.  I already tried this on the [[Template:AY Master/es]], and it seems to maybe work?  Let me know! If so, all we need to do is find every place that uses subpagename.  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 18:32, 3 October 2014 (EDT)
:We might also want to look at this: [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Template:Translatable_template].  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 19:14, 3 October 2014 (EDT)
::There's going to be a lot more work involved in getting the Translatable template things to work.  I'll work on it as time allows. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 20:52, 3 October 2014 (EDT)

:::Praise God, I was able to figure out how to translate the transcluded template for AY Master/es. The coding was in the honor_desc/es template the whole time! I just had to fix the code there and voilá, it is set up for Spanish.<br /><br />I'm still trying to figure out how to include the correct Spanish name in the AY Master/es. I realize now (probably because I'm getting more familiar with wiki coding) that no template based on page name will ever work, such as the basenamepage or subpagename. This is because the actual page title will never be in Spanish, since only a language code extension is added (such as /es). I'm trying to learn how to instead include either:
:::* the <nowiki>{{{honorname}}}</nowiki> from the honor_desc/es template into the AY Master/es template or
:::* the name of the honor from the translated page title
:::Any suggestions?
Templates come with two types of parameters (or arguments as they are called in software engineering).  The first type is positional, such as {{{2}}}, which means "the second argument".  The other type is a "named argument", such as {{{honorname}}}.  It is a Bad Idea to mix the two in a template.  Positional arguments are easier to use for simple things, and they are more compact.  But when we start to want to add optional arguments, or there are a lot of them, it begins to get more difficult.  You then have to remember that the second argument meant "introduction year", etc, and you can't have new required arguments following an optional argument.  So I generally prefer named arguments.  The AY Master template takes one or two arguments, and uses the now-discredited <nowiki>{{SUBPAGENAME}}</nowiki> variable.  We could try using <nowiki>{{#titleparts:{{PAGENAME}}|1|3}}</nowiki> instead of <nowiki>{{SUBPAGENAME}}</nowiki>, or we could change the template to take three named arguments and always pass them in.  I still haven't figured out what titleparts will do with a translated page - it probably takes an English name.  This means we'll need to rewrite the AY Master template and then robotically replace it wherever it is used.  That is what I did when we moved from honor_header to honor_desc.  I renamed it so that both could exist at the same time while the robot made the edits, otherwise it would  have been broken during the transition.  So if you like, I could take a crack at creating a new AY_Master (Honor_Master|honorname|mastername|core_vs_optional?) and then coaxing the robot into making the replacements. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 18:32, 13 October 2014 (EDT)
:Please do! I'm just trying things here and there to see if anything makes a difference. I don't really know what kinds of repercussions my edits will have, even though I'm just trying to test different things. If it's not too much trouble to rewrite the AY Master template, and if a robot can do most of the work, I think that would be ideal. -- [[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 18:39, 13 October 2014 (EDT)
::It's underway now.  The template is "Honor Master", and I am making a few test runs with the 'bot. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 18:53, 13 October 2014 (EDT)
:::Is there a way to use the "Page Display Title" instead of the SubPageName? Or would it create some kind of never-ending mess of a loop? -- [[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 19:01, 13 October 2014 (EDT)
::::I'm having a hard time finding info about "Page Display Title" - I found stuff on plain old "Display Title", but it has been deprecated and is fraught with peril.  Is that the same thing, or did you find something else? --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 19:20, 13 October 2014 (EDT)
:::::"Display Title" I believe is the function to change the way a title is displayed on the page. What I would like to know and find is if it is possible to use within the parameters the title that is <i>displayed</i>, instead of the actual page name. If there is some line of code or tag or template that references or uses the displayed title, that could be used instead of the actual page name.<br />
I don't find any information that something like that exists, and maybe it's just idealistic, but it sure would make it easier.
::::::I don't think it can be used that way.  I'm sure someone could write an extension to do that, but that's not a small task.  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 19:33, 13 October 2014 (EDT)
:The new template worked like a charm. Thanks! I'm wondering if there are any other templates that are similar and will have to be redone as well ... --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 12:55, 14 October 2014 (EDT)
::There are a few more.  I searched for SUBPAGENAME, then clicked the "advanced" search button and limited it to templates.  There aren't that many: [[Template:Honor variants]] is one.  The rest will just miscategorize the honor.  Not that we want that, but it's a lower priority problem. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 14:58, 14 October 2014 (EDT)

==Translated Advanced Level==

So here's another nice little challenge: How do I link the Advanced option within the honor_desc/es template? I mean, how do I show the honor has an advanced level also? As is written now in the English template, the code looks to see if there is an advanced level of the honor by checking for page titles that have the "category" and "honorname" input into the template. The problem in other languages is that in the template, the translated name is used for the "category" and "honorname"; and there exist no such pages with those parameters in their titles, since the language extension is simply added at the end of the English page title.<br /> <br />Any ideas or suggestions on how to link basic honor levels to advanced levels in other languages? How can I get the "ifexist" function to search for advanced honor levels in different languages?

:I've been giving some thought to that.  I think we'll have to use the #titleparts function to grab the first three elements of the title, tack on " - Advanced", and see if that exists in English.  If it does, then there is an advanced version of the honor, whether it has been translated or not.  Linking to it could be another issue.  Maybe if we appended "/#language" to the English name of the honor we'd have a link, and then we'd need a translated name to appear.  I'll play around with it some and see what I can do. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 20:51, 14 October 2014 (EDT)
::Have you had any luck using <nowiki>[[Special:MyLanguage/pagename in English|pagename in Spanish]]</nowiki>?  I've been trying it out on the wiki on my laptop with no luck.  It seems promising, as it would fix the links to the advanced honors as well as the honor's category. [[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 22:36, 14 October 2014 (EDT)
:::I have heard of it. I'll see what I can find. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 22:57, 14 October 2014 (EDT)

::::OK, maybe it works?  I changed [[Template:Honor desc/es]], and now if I set my preferred language to Spanish and click the "Avanzado" link, it takes me to the advanced page in Spanish.  If I click it while using English as my preferred language, it takes me to the English version.  I also changed the link to the honor category.  The MyLanguage feature will default back to English if the page has not been translated.  Let me know if this is a workable solution or if you see problems with it. If it works OK, then next up... [[Template:ay prerequisite]].  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 23:00, 14 October 2014 (EDT)

:::::It seems to do the trick. Only that the advanced link takes me to the English version of the honor. The only honor I've translated so far with an advanced level is Adventurer for Christ. And yes, I was about to mention the AY Prerequisite Template, I was trying to figure that one out as well. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 23:08, 14 October 2014 (EDT)
Did you try it with your preferred language set to Spanish?  I don't think it cares where you are when you click the link - it only cares what language you have selected up at the top of the page (or in your user preferences).  I know that's not ideal, but... it might be the best we can do?  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 23:10, 14 October 2014 (EDT)
::::::It does work with the preferred language. It's not really the ideal, is there a way we can get it to link to the PageName/es?

I made an attempt.  With this change, it will take you to "AYHAB/cat/honor - Advanced/es".  The link to the category is red now because there is no translation for that page yet.  Is this preferable? --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 23:41, 14 October 2014 (EDT)
:It worked beautifully! I checked it out with "Adventurer for Christ"; it links directly to the advanced level in Spanish. Thanks for taking the time to help me figure these things out, I really do appreciate it. Two templates I'm also trying to work on are [[Template:ay prerequisite/es]] and [[Template:See also/es]]. I haven't really looked at what you did yet with the honor_desc to see if I can figure it out for the other templates, but I'll check it out later. I have a 3-month-old that refuses to sleep before 2 in the morning ... --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 01:16, 15 October 2014 (EDT)
::As with other templates, I have created a new one with a new name - [[Template:honor prerequisites]] will replace [[Template:ay prerequisites]].  I know what you mean about a 3-month old.  I used to have one or three of those myself.  The second one slept less than we did.  I've also been thinking about how we mark templates and their inclusion for translation - we might be doing it wrong, and that could be the root of the problem.  I will think about that some more. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 07:03, 15 October 2014 (EDT)

== Camels ==

The Camels SAD honor actually covers [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camelid| Camelids] (4 south american members of family plus the two types of camels). Is it possible the spanish honor name translates better to Camelids rather than Camels?  [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 19:34, 15 October 2014 (EDT)
:Agreed. While the literal translation is indeed Camels, the structure of the requirements actually talks about camelids. I'll go ahead and change it to Camelids. -- [[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 19:38, 15 October 2014 (EDT)

== Clean Up ==

I don't know what you did, but FuzzyBot has been going nuts deleting a lot of our primary pages.  I've undeleted 68 of them so far, but there are about another 100 that need to be restored.  Maybe you could take a crack at that?  If you go to recent changes and tell it to show you the latest 500 (instead of the default 25), then click on all the red links that Fuzzy has removed (I open them in a new tab).  Then you can restore the edits. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 10:34, 27 October 2014 (EDT)
:??? I only deleted a few pages that still had the English language extension. I made sure to check every time before the deletion that it wasn't the primary page. I'm not sure what happened then. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 10:50, 27 October 2014 (EDT)
::I don't know either, but it was saying that a lot of them were delete because AYHAB/Outreach and AYHAB/Outdoor Industries were deleted. Whatever the cause, we need to restore a bunch of pages.  The main index is full of redlinks now. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 10:56, 27 October 2014 (EDT)
:::Wow, I must have missed something. Sorry about that, I'll help restore them. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 10:58, 27 October 2014 (EDT)
::::It's an easy thing to do.  Thanks!  I wonder if there is an easy way to prevent us from accidentally translating to en (since that's what it seems to want to do by default).  That seems to me to be the "root cause" of these woes.  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 11:34, 27 October 2014 (EDT)

== Poison Ivy ==

I saw that you moved the translate tags around on the [[Adventist Youth Honors Answer Book/First aid/Poison ivy|poison ivy page]], and was wondering (not criticizing) what your rationale was.  The reason I laid them out the way I did was to remove some of the wiki markup from the translation effort (thinking ahead to when we have more translators who may not know wiki markup).  I don't mind at all that you changed it, but would like to understand why so that I don't repeat a mistake. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 18:55, 5 November 2014 (EST)
:Good question, I don't think I even know why. I guess it's because it's easier for me to just include the entire mark-up in the translation process. I'm more of a big picture kind of person and maybe the extra tags just seemed cluttered to me. Honestly, it doesn't matter, I was just trying to fly through and get through using the method I was accustomed to and that one just stuck out, since it looked different. So, no particular rationale except that I like having the whole mark-up show in the translation process. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 20:51, 5 November 2014 (EST)
::OK.  We can leave it that way, but I do wonder if other translators would prefer the same big-picture view. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 21:14, 5 November 2014 (EST)

== See also ==

Now I know why you were having trouble translating the See also template. It's because there was a "See also" page in the main namespace, and there was another in template namespace. The one in template namespace was imported from Wikipedia, and had a different purpose from the one I wrote in main namespace. I deleted the WP template and then deleted the Spanish one, but then saw that you had a lot of files using it, so I restored it again. However, I'm guessing it wasn't doing what you wanted?  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 20:56, 13 November 2014 (EST)
:Well that makes sense, I guess. The WP Spanish template is used in all of the translated honors so far, but it really isn't doing what it's supposed to. The point of the "See also" is to show that the honor is a prerequisite for other honors, such as an Advanced honor or a series (like Camping Skills and Backpacking are needed before completing Outdoor Leadership). This is a great way to let Pathfinders know that once they have completed a certain honor, they are a step closer to completing other certain honors. I tried my best with the translation but I noticed that even the English version does not do what it's supposed to. For example, Campcraft is a prerequisite to many other Recreational honors, but it only lists Winter Camping. I wasn't sure at the time how to fix the code, much less how to go about translating it. I left it alone to come back to, but ended up doing a bunch of other stuff and never got to it again.
:I'm glad you were able to figure out the trouble. I say go ahead and delete the templates in both languages. If you can figure out how to fix the English version so that it lists ALL of the honor sequences (maybe each has to be added manually?), then I'll see if I get the translation to Spanish going. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 22:21, 13 November 2014 (EST)

::I wouldn't say that the See Also page is broken - it's more that it doesn't cover all the bases.  It basically finds anything in the AYHAB/prerequisite/honor category.  The [[Template:Honor prerequisite|Honor prerequisite]] template, adds any page that uses it to the proper category.  Pages that don't use the prereq template wouldhave to be added manually.  I took a quick look at Camp Craft, and found three more honors that link to it - but none of those use the honor prerequisite template.  The fix is easy - just add those pages to the right category, and See Also will pick them up.  

::As for [[:Template:See Also/es]], I will go ahead and delete that.  I'll take a crack at creating a [[See Also/es]], swiping the Spanish from the template you made.  You will want to review it though! --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 18:12, 14 November 2014 (EST)

:::Good stuff, then. I guess we will have to go through and check out which honors are missing from the honor category to be added as prerequisites. JadeDragon might have more insight as he is actively working through the IA curricula and might have a few honors fresh in his mind. I will take a look at the [[See Also/es]] when you finish it. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 20:01, 14 November 2014 (EST)
::::I think I understand the problem and the solution.  As long as we use the Prereq template the honors get picked up correctly?  I'm a guy, not a women :)  Jade is my daughter.  [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 20:11, 14 November 2014 (EST)
:::::Oops! Sorry! I will say this, though, you and I have at least two things in common: We've both been mistaken for women on this wiki & we both have daughters named Jade. Nice! --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 20:19, 14 November 2014 (EST)
::::::LOL.  On the Internet no one knows you are an eagle.  Or a man.  Or even a manly man.  Yeah, the prereq template does do that automatically for us, but we might not want all the verbosity it adds.  If you don't want that, just add the page to the category.  See [http://www.investitureachievement.org/wiki/index.php?title=Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book/Recreation/Outdoor_Leadership&diff=81156&oldid=81151&rcid=&curid=738 this diff] for an example.  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 20:40, 14 November 2014 (EST)

'''IA Connections'''
'''::::::::two Jades :)  I am experimenting with a template for http://www.investitureachievement.org/wiki/index.php/Template:IAConnection tonight. Plan to tag each honor connected to IA between the header and the first requirement. I also thought about an IA icon we can use on the lists. [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]])

==Class Strips in Spanish==
I see what you did now, you moved it. We'll keep the discussion there then --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 22:03, 24 November 2014 (EST)

== Honor desc - new argument for translated pages ==

When you create a page translation, could you add another argument to honor_desc/es?:
<nowiki>|primary=Adventist Youth Honors Answer Book/Nature/Geology</nowiki>.

But of course, put in the name of the honor that this one is translated from.  I've been going through the ones you've done already and adding that.  I thought we'd be able to leave that out and the new honor_desc template would have been able to figure it out, but that seems not to be the case (and I don't understand why).  Without it, you will get a list of "see-also's" in English.  With it, you will get the ones that exist in Spanish.  

I had a bear of a time getting [[:Template:See Also/es]] to work.  It was not picking up the changes I had made to the English version.  Found out (after much violent noggin' to wall action) that I had to re-mark the page for translation.  That solved it.

BTW, if a page does not exist, the box will still appear, but it will not have any pages listed in it. Oh well. Maybe I can fix that later.  Or maybe we just wait for that problem to go away.  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 21:49, 25 November 2014 (EST)
:Ok, I will make sure to add the new argument. So I put the English version in the Primary argument, no language extension? (lol, noggin' to wall action) --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 21:57, 25 November 2014 (EST)
::Yes - the the See_Also and Honor_desc templates rely on that for finding the prerequisites.  That's why if an honor is a prereq, the template will know that it is and create the see_also box - but then it can only list the Spanish versions that exist, since it's pulling the honorname out of the honor_desc/lang template.  This approach really does preclude the possibility of a red link - I'd have to start over to make that happen.  All translations will show up in the prereq category for a given honor, but the template only pulls out the pages for a single language.  If I have to change it next month, it will take me at least a day to figure out how it even works again.  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 22:13, 25 November 2014 (EST)
:::Do I add this argument to all honors or only advanced levels or only basic levels? --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 22:21, 25 November 2014 (EST)
::::It would be best to add them to all honors, but it really only needs to go into those that are prerequisites of others.  The problem is, we don't know which existing honors will ''become'' prerequisites for new ones in the future.  So it's best if the existing honor already has the bits in place to make this work. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 22:34, 25 November 2014 (EST)
:::::So just to make sure I have this right: I add the Primary argument to all honors; I add the English name, with no language extension; do I put the honor name even if it is an advanced level? For example, in Geology - Advanced, is the Primary the basic level or do I put the advanced level? --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 22:41, 25 November 2014 (EST)
::::::Yes, add the primary to all translated versions of any honor.  It should be the page name of the honor you are translating, whether that is advanced or basic.  For honors that have regional variants, it should be the page name of the disambiguation page.  All honors should have one page that serves as its primary.  The primary is the one that gets counted in the honor count logic, and it's the one that holds the prereq category (so all honors that have Geology as a prerequisite will belong to the AYHAB/Prerequiste/Geology category).  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 09:50, 26 November 2014 (EST)

'''Nevermind!''' - I found and fixed the bug that was preventing this from working automatically.  [[Template:Honor_desc/es ]] now pulls the primary name from the pagename correctly if no primary argument is given.  So we do not need to supply one except in the case where the primary is not in the first three parts of the PAGENAME (which is not the same as the translated display name).  Examples would be for regional variants of Christian Citizenship, etc. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 12:44, 26 November 2014 (EST)

== Translation Pause ==

Just in case anyone has been wondering, I have not been able to edit or translate much recently because my laptop's screen has cracked and the image does not show. Due to the holidays, I haven't had much time or budget to get it fixed yet. I can use other computers every once in a while but it is not easy to make the massive amount of edits and changes as before. Hopefully this will be fixed soon, but just for knowing's sake, translations might be limited for now. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 13:54, 14 December 2014 (EST)
:Thanks for letting us know! I ''was'' wondering! --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 18:59, 14 December 2014 (EST)
::So I tried making sone edits earlier using my phone, since my laptop is still out of commission. What a nightmare. I usually use lots of tabs in the browser and lots of keyboard shortcuts, to which I have none in a mobile browser. Then there's the small, tiny keyboard of the phone, to which I constantly have to go back and fix misspelled words due to my apparent giant fingers.
::I had been hoping to get much done through the holidays translation-wise, but I'm still trying to save up the necessary amount to fix my cracked screen. Maybe a holiday gift  might help remedy the situation ... we will see.
::In the mean time, I'll do what I can when I find an available comluter.
::p.s. writing this very message was a pain on the phone ...
::--[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 16:19, 19 December 2014 (EST)

:::If you have an old CRT monitor lying about (or know someone who does), you should be able to just hook it to your laptop. I did that for a while when I had a broken screen.  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 16:23, 19 December 2014 (EST)
::::Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't have one. I have a friend's laptop now that I'm borrowing for a this week so hopefully I can find the time to make some changes. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 17:36, 5 January 2015 (EST)

== Braille Question 4 Translation ==

http://www.investitureachievement.org/wiki/index.php/Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book/Outreach/Braille  see question 4 translation issue. I'm pretty sure I'm correct based on my research but can you confirm?  Thanks [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 16:00, 17 September 2015 (EDT)
:Thanks for pointing that out. When I originally put up the translation, I was actually going off the Portuguese requirements, so I was trying to translate from Portuguese to Spanish to then English. The SAD finally provided a Spanish manual (all their new honors were originally only offered in Portuguese), and I was able to correct the requirements in both English and Spanish. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 17:08, 17 September 2015 (EDT)

== Congrats ==

Congratulations on getting your Master's degree. :-) --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 10:29, 28 October 2015 (EDT)
:Thanks! Took me a while to get it, but all worth it. Now it's going straight for God's work! --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 10:34, 28 October 2015 (EDT)
::Yes a Masters is a lot of work. Congrats!  [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 10:42, 28 October 2015 (EDT)

== Oral Hygiene Honor Token ==

Is there any way to get a better picture of this? It looks very blurry :( I generally save images as .png format, they tend to keep quality better than .jpeg.

[[File:Oral Hygiene Honor.png]]


[[User:Bluescifiworm|Bluescifiworm]] ([[User talk:Bluescifiworm|talk]]) 15:34, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

:Hi, [[User:Bluescifiworm|Bluescifiworm]],

:This is the best image I was able to find for this honor. As I am sure you know, it is an SAD honor and therefore not easily available here in the NAD. This image was the only one I was able to find and it is from the SAD honors manual. I have not been able to find an image of the actual patch. There is a director in my conference who completed this honor and is requesting the honor patches. If it comes through, I will take a picture of the actual patch and upload it here. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 22:08, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

::Hi, [[User: W126jep|W126jep]]. My club recently completed this honor as well. If I get it soon, I can upload a picture of the patch :) [[User:Bluescifiworm|Bluescifiworm]] ([[User talk:Bluescifiworm|talk]]) 19:41, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

== Spirit of Prophecy Template ==

Is there a template to quote EGW writings, just a there is a Bible verse template?
By the way, is there a place to check what are the existing templates?
[[User:Marc3|Marc3]] ([[User talk:Marc3|talk]]) 11:18, 12 April 2018 (EDT)
:There is currently not a EGW template, although that would make perfect sense. If you have experience creating templates and want to give it a shot, then have at it. You can make a sandbox to experiment and tweak until its just right. This [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Sandbox_tutorial link] will give you a quick tutorial on how to use one.
:I do appreciate the work and order you are giving the Spanish translations. Please remember not to change the actual wording of the requirements, whether in English or Spanish. The reason is that they are copyrighted material from the General Conference or the North American Division. The requirements posted on the Wiki are taken directly from their source material. This Wiki is also hosted and sponsored by the NAD and they have made this specific request.
:If you do spot errors (which sometimes do occur) or can think of better translations, let me know and we can send them as recommendations through the proper channels. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 00:03, 13 April 2018 (EDT)
:: I'll try to create a new template for this, however I don't think it would be too different from the current Bible verse template ... any suggestions will be appreciated. [[User:Marc3|Marc3]] ([[User talk:Marc3|talk]]) 09:25, 13 April 2018 (EDT)

== Jamestown Honor ==

Thanks for the slight cleanup on code. I copied and pasted from another honor. I have not used a wiki in many, many years. Wikipedia used to delete all my pages so I gave up. :)
--[[User:MacDowin|MacDowin]] ([[User talk:MacDowin|talk]]) 15:04, 28 August 2018 (EDT)

== Covid Index ==

Are you OK with activating the Covid index on the front page?  Do you agree with the deletions I made when I briefly had it live (see the history)?  The idea there was to reduce the wall-of-text that I'm sure most people don't read. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 23:25, 13 April 2020 (EDT)
:Truthfully, I would prefer a link. Perhaps a large, over-sized link to stand out. I prefer the main page to showcase the main index with all the honors. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 07:14, 14 April 2020 (EDT)
::That's fine with me.  I'll create a page and add a link to it.  I do think we need to reduce the wall-of-text we have on the front page.  Maybe we should move some of that to its own "for more information" page and link to that.  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 17:01, 14 April 2020 (EDT)
::: That's not a bad idea. The large text is mostly for the regional honors note. What about making it collapsible? -- [[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 17:02, 14 April 2020 (EDT)
::::Collapsible is even better.  I'm also thinking of adding a sitenotice so that the covid link shows up at the top of every page.  IIRC it can be dismissed. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 17:18, 14 April 2020 (EDT)
:::::Nope.  Sitenotice isn't dismissable.  Feel free to edit it [[Mediawiki:Sitenotice]]. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 17:29, 14 April 2020 (EDT)

== Shall we attempt an experimental  translation? ==

Hey Jaceil,
I've got [[Adventist Youth Honors Answer Book/Nature/Amphibians/Sandbox]] and [[Adventist Youth Honors Answer Book/Nature/Amphibians - Advanced/Sandbox]] working to my satisfaction, though I might still remove the TOC from honor_desc2 (and once we roll most of this out, we can remove it from honor_desc).  

The links between them seem to work except that they take you to the live pages and not the sandbox pages, but I think that's OK.  If you have time, maybe you could see if the translation features will work on those.  I don't think we need a complete translation - just enough to see if this is going to cause trouble. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 21:54, 19 October 2020 (EDT)

:I see you made an attempt.  I went in and made a few adjustments, but it has been a long time since I've tried using the translation software.  I don't think we need a translation of the reqreq and ansreq templates.  I guess we ''could'', but the way they're set up now, I think they should do what we want - at least for en/es/fr.  I failed to put the languages tag in the .../Requirements page, so it didn't offer me the button to view things in Spanish until I fixed that.  I kept hitting the button at the very top and selecting it from there, but I'm sure you know what happened then - the interface turned to Spanish, and I was still getting the English pages.  I'm not ''sure'' I did everything right, so after I pasted translations in for the first three requirements, I stopped.  I don't know if we're supposed to mark those titles for translation or not.  I don't want to make a big mess, but I'm OK with making a little one. :D --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 19:59, 20 October 2020 (EDT)
::I started to translate, I didn't get very far as I was actually on a Zoom call at the same time... (the Zoom was stuff I'd heard before and I was trying not to get bored). I'll have to keep experimenting with it when I have some time. You should check out the sandbox from a mobile perspective as it looks interesting also. I'll keep translating and see if I dont hit any snags.  --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 03:11, 21 October 2020 (EDT)
:::I'm waffling on whether the requirements listed in the answer keys should be displayed in the blue box, or as section headers like before.  I'm pretty sure we could do either. If they remain headers, the mobile view will collapse them, plus you can jump straight to a requirement from the TOC. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 17:44, 21 October 2020 (EDT)