Difference between revisions of "Pathfinder Wiki:Community portal"

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If you have questions about any of the pages in this Wiki, you can ask them here. Just click the "Edit" button above and start typing. Be sure to sign the question by typing four tildes at the end of your questions like this: <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>.
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If you have questions about any of the pages in this Wiki, you can ask them here. To do that, you will need to create an account, and then click the "Edit page" button at the top of this page and start typing. Be sure to sign the question by typing four tildes at the end of your questions like this: <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>.
  
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[[Pathfinder Wiki:Community portal/archive|Archives]]
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===<i>'''[[Pathfinder Wiki:Community portal/archive|ARCHIVES]]'''</i>===
  
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==Honor prerequisite==
 
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I have unleashed the bot.  It is converting all pages that use ay_prerequisite over to honor_prerequisite.  When it's done, I will delete ay_prerequisite.  Honor_prerequisite uses named arguments:
 
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*honor - the page name of the honor
 
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*category - the category to which that honor belongs
 
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*displayname - an optional argument for the name that should displayed.  This is useful for translated honors, as the honor= argument should be Page_Name_In_English/language, while the displayname should be the translated name.
 
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Watch for trouble!  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 21:03, 18 November 2014 (EST)
 
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:Nice. I'll be on guard. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 21:50, 18 November 2014 (EST)
 
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::It's done, and I have detected no havoc.  That does not mean there isn't any.  I also changed the [[template:honor_prerequisite/es]] and everything that linked to it.  Even that looks pretty OK, though the robot was not able to handle that, as the bot takes the edit path, and these had to go via the translate path.  Dunno if we'll be able to effect wholesale changes like that with the bot.  That's something we may have to look into.  It also had a spot of trouble with the pages that have been "translated" into English (with the "/en" suffix).  I deleted those.  I have also deleted the deprecated ay_prerequisite templates.  JD, you were battling the bot for a while (inserting ay_pre's while it was replacing them with honor_pre's).  But the bot won. ;-) --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 22:20, 18 November 2014 (EST)
 
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:::I'll check around and see if I see anything out of place. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 22:26, 18 November 2014 (EST)
 
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I noticed the new line does not use the category. That is just fine. Makes translation easier. [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 22:39, 18 November 2014 (EST)
 
  
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==Advanced Honors Prerequisite==
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== Wikibooks Pathfinder Honor Answers Update and Updated Honors Workbook ==
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I don't think it's valid to say that Antelopes is a prerequisite to Antelopes - Advanced.  Just because it makes sense doesn't make it so.  The requirements don't call it out, so I don't think we should add it as one. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 22:15, 17 November 2014 (EST)
 
  
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:How about we insert a problematic requirement? Since the advanced star is added to the basic patch, how you going to show you earned the advanced honor only? [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 22:43, 17 November 2014 (EST)
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Hello all,
  
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::That sounds like the right way to deal with it.  There is no way to show advanced sans basic in this case, but as I said, just because it makes sense doesn't mean we have license to change it.  If we did, no honors would have problematic requirements. ;-) --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 22:52, 17 November 2014 (EST)
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2 questions:
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:::So is this the only Advanced honors that doesn't request the basic honor as its first requirement? --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 23:11, 17 November 2014 (EST)
 
  
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===these have the same issue - official requirements don't require basic honor as a prereq:===
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1) I have 2 honors workbook, one from 2000 (or so) and one from 2014. However, there have been some new honors added since 2014 (i.e. Mobile Technology honor, in 2016). Is there an updated honor workbook coming to include the newer honors from 2014 onward, such as the Mobile Technology honor (and others)?
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# [[Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book/Nature/Antelopes - Advanced|Antelopes - Advanced]]
 
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# [[Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book/Outreach/Bible_Marking_-_Advanced|Bible Marking - Advanced]]
 
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# [[Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book/Nature/Cacti_-_Advanced|Cacti - Advanced]]
 
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# [[Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book/ADRA/Disaster_Response_-_Advanced|Disaster Response - Advanced]]
 
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# [[Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book/Health_and_Science/First_Aid_-_Advanced|First Aid - Advanced]] No header
 
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# [[Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book/Recreation/Geological_Geocaching_-_Advanced|Geological Geocaching - Advanced]]
 
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# [[Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book/Recreation/Lifesaving_-_Advanced|Lifesaving - Advanced]]
 
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# [[Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book/Arts_and_Crafts/Paper_Quilling_-_Advanced|Paper Quilling - Advanced]]
 
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# [[Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book/Recreation/Ultimate_Disc_-_Advanced|Ultimate Disc - Advanced]] 
 
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# [[Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book/Recreation/Water_Safety_Instructor_-_Advanced|Water Safety Instructor - Advanced]]
 
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# Some or all the swimming honors - but you can't pass red cross levels without getting the earlier levels or testing out
 
  
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===discussion===
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2) The current Wikibooks Pathfinder Honor Answers website isn't updated to reflect a lot of the newer honors, even the 2014 Honors book. Will the Wikibooks website be updated anytime soon?
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:We should create a category for advanced honors not requiring the basis as a prerequisite.  I could then present that to the NAD for action.  A lot of them did not originate in the NAD (but some did), so the NAD would hafta forward that to the GC.  BTW, These lists would be a lot easier to read if you used wiki links instead of web links. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 14:28, 18 November 2014 (EST)
 
  
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::I was thinking use the problematic requirement template and just paste in a standard explanation in it at the top of each honor followed by the ay prereq template. We already provide the answers we feel are right to the other problematic requirements across the project. There is no one that will argue with linking the Advanced back to the Basic Honor at the beginning of the answers, or linking the basic to the advanced as a Sequel and in the header. These are all links of convenience not changes to the requirements.  
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If we are to broaden our young people's minds and help them grow, us leaders to keep up with the pace and bring everything up-to-date.
  
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:::I agree. It simply states "see also" not "followed by" or "next level". It would be more for convenience. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 18:08, 18 November 2014 (EST)
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Thanks for the reply!
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~ Kris
  
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::We should submit all the problematic honors together. Dixie Plata (on both NAD and GC Honor Comm) told me they are working to rationalize the GC vs NAD variations and fix any problematic requirements. She asked me to email the details to her, which I'll do when I think we have them all tagged. [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 17:19, 18 November 2014 (EST)
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:Hi Kris and welcome to the Wiki! Great questions. Here are my responses, you might get other responses from others too:
  
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===Sequential Honors not showing at Prereqs pages sequential box:===
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:1) The two workbooks you have, are they from the General Conference or from Advent''Source''? I ask because the GC Honors has not been updated since their last 2014 edition. However, Advent''Source'' prints material specifically for the North American Division and usually has their material up to date, according to the NAD. I would not know when the GC plans to update their material, especially since Andrés Peralta took over as the new world leader for clubs and is still trying to learn as much as he can. Many times the GC & NAD requirements can differ, so that might also be a discrepancy you also see; this wouldn't necessarily mean one is outdated, only that different versions exist according to their region.
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(need to check these later - hopefully resolved with addition of templates)
 
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# [[Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book/Vocational/Computer_(General_Conference)|Computers (GC)]] (Computers Advanced and Internet Advanced I think) and Advanced honor not showing in header.
 
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# [[Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book/Arts_and_Crafts/Currency_-_Advanced_(Canada)|Currency - Advanced (Canada)]]
 
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# [[Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book/Health_and_Science/First_Aid,_Basic|First Aid, Basic]] (nor in the header)
 
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# [[Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book/Health_and_Science/First_Aid,_Standard|First Aid, Standard]] (nor in the header)
 
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# [[Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book/Arts_and_Crafts/Music_(General_Conference)|Music (GC)]]
 
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# [[Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book/Arts_and_Crafts/Music_-_Advanced (South_Pacific_Division|Music - Advanced (SPD)]]
 
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# [[Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book/Nature/Stars_(South Pacific Division)|Stars (South Pacific Division)]] not showing See Also in header-can we over ride?
 
  
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===es pages showing in the sequential honors===
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:2) This Wiki Answer Book is actually the most updated honors resource in the world. It is comprised of volunteers within the Pathfinder community who are constantly updating the content and keeping it to the day. If you are referring to the previous [https://en.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book Wikibooks] version, that is the old site and is no longer maintained. There is a message on the front page stating that it was moved to this Wiki.
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# [[Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book/Health_and_Science/First_Aid,_Standard|First Aid, Standard]]
 
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# [[Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book/Recreation/Orienteering|Orienteering]]
 
  
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:I hope that helps clarify some things for you. If you still have some doubts, express them here and myself and others will answer to the best of our knowledge! --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 00:58, 26 May 2019 (EDT)
  
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:I'm going to have to change honor_desc to take an optional argument for the advanced honor for cases like these where the honor name cannot be computed (can't insert " - Advanced" before the parenthetical portion.  Not easy, but I'm sure it's doable.  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 14:30, 18 November 2014 (EST)
 
  
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::So then what is the difference between the [[Template:Honor prerequisite|Honor Prerequisite Template]] and the [[Template:Ay prerequisite|AY Prerequisite Template]]? If I remember correctly, the [[Template:Honor prerequisite|Honor Prerequisite Template]] was created because the [[Template:Ay prerequisite|AY Prerequisite Template]] wasn't helpful in the translation process. Does this have anything to do the sequential honors and how they are categorized? When do we use one instead of the other? --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 15:01, 18 November 2014 (EST)
 
  
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:::honor_prerequisite was intended to replace ay_prerequisite, but I don't remember what the difference was, or how far along I got with honor_prereq.  For now, we should proably stick with ay_prereq.  I'll coax the robot into doing the replacement when it's ready.  I'll add that to my todo list.  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 15:18, 18 November 2014 (EST)
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== E-Honors ==
  
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::::I just looked at every Advance Honor and hopefully every sequential honor. 95% of the honors use ay_prerequisite and I replaced the few that did not with ay_prerequisite. Hope that was correct. [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 17:14, 18 November 2014 (EST)
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Hi there,
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It's been awhile since I have been on here. I noticed many conferences are setting up Online Pathfinder honors (Video/Slideshow) Some require registration and others are being uploaded on youtube, vimeo or other websites. I was wondering what would be the best option to have this linked into a list? Where Pathfinders can watch the video's with the registration link to the conference or something. I would love to talk more on this idea via e-mail or messenger or something else to brainstorm.
  
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:::::Having Dixie take a look is a good idea and lends weight to the concept of adding a problematic requirement report to all of those honors. That way we can collect them all in one place. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 18:44, 18 November 2014 (EST)
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This is currently what is available online coming up.
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[https://kvisit.com/qwI/nvuuAQ Pathfinder Calendar]
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--[[User:Ixoekea|Ixoekea]] ([[User talk:Ixoekea|talk]]) 22:19, 11 April 2020 (EDT)
  
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::::::[[Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book/missingprereq]] [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 19:16, 18 November 2014 (EST)
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:We've noticed this too, and we're exploring possibilities. If you look in [[User:Jomegat/Do at home]] we have a list we're building of honors that can be done at home. That index is in my user space right now because it's not ready for prime-time. We might feature the index on the main page, or we might create a dedicated page for it. I'd love to hear any ideas you have - you can just put ideas on this page if you want, or even prototype something in your own user space and we could discuss it there.. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 16:39, 12 April 2020 (EDT)
  
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==IA Connections==
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:: What I'm wondering is I currently have a facebook group active but the amount of Honor's being videoed by different conferences is starting to become a lot. Like 3 conferences have done Peacemaking, 2 have done firesafety. There is about 20 so far in video's, with this pandemic going for awhile. I could see more and more conferences designing new video's. I know our conference is talking about it. What I am wondering is should these video's be merged into here somehow or would it be best to come up with another site all on Teaching (video's, powerpoint, etc) The video's do have registration links to the conference main site. Maybe link those video's back to here for the honor answer book. I'm just trying to figure out something to merge it all together. I'm open to any suggestions. The Calendar has been the best idea yet for whats coming. But I'm still kinda lost on a video database for the honors. I am thinking of a streaming setup for the videos. Just not sure where to start.
  
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We present the IA Connections in a variety if ways now, so I created a template at IAConnections.  It is set so you insert the level and section together then what the requirement is. Next there is a free form field. Given the variety of situations I can't figure how to better systemize it.  It does not need to that user friendly since I'll go through and add it to all applicable Honors in one go and then we are good until the IA requirements change. I add the IA logo, however I think it would look nice in a box - don't know how to add the box. See [[Red Alert]] for an example. JadeDragon
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--[[User:Ixoekea|Ixoekea]] ([[User talk:Ixoekea|talk]]) 22:22, 12 April 2020 (EDT)
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:I've boxed the template - to do that, all you need to do is wrap it in a table and set the table's background color.  Feel free to change the color to something else if you want - I borrowed it from the honor_desc template.  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 18:40, 15 November 2014 (EST)
 
  
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==Transcluding large swaths of Honors==
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== Online Honor Videos ==
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I'm not terribly comfortable with taking large swaths of honor material and transcluding it into the IA pages.  I have one main objection, and that's the header levels (i.e., the number of equal signs surrounding a section name).  It should not be the same in the IA page as in the honor page.  We could deal with that, but it's very ugly and would make it difficult (to nearly impossible) for a novice to edit.  I would like to explore options before we walk down that path very far.  I remember seeing an extension I could install that would allow us to transclude a ''portion'' of a page - maybe that would help. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 08:48, 14 November 2014 (EST)
 
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:Yeah - here's the [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Labeled_Section_Transclusion extension].  Let's come up with a formula for naming sections inside an honor, and see what we can come up with.  I'll work on installing the extension this weekend. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 08:54, 14 November 2014 (EST)
 
  
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[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] I just saw this after you commented on my talk. <strike>I've just finished the last section of the last section (Guide Serving Others) that could benefit from this (except if we want to bring over Nature honor requirements, but that is not really necessary because the IA provides the requirement directly without calling out the honor. </strike> It is really only in the Serving Others sections that specific requirements are called out and that is a mess. I kind of like the way the Requirement displays exactly the same size as on the honor page, but we can easily push it down in size by adding == or === on either side of the template text and excluding the == within the template page itself.  For this to work the question and the answer need to be on separate templates.
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Hi all,  
  
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I don't think making it easier for a novice to edit the Requirements is a good thing. In fact, would it be worthwhile to put the honor questions all in protected pages like the IA requirements are?  Maybe a bot could be asked to do that following this formula Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book/Outreach/Rural_Development/R1 for Requirement 1 Would that make translation harder though? [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 18:58, 14 November 2014 (EST)
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My name is Pr Phil Yates from the Greater Sydney Conference (where I am one of the Youth Director and Pathfinder Director for the conference). I am so appreciative for THIS Pathfinder Website, it has helped and continues to help all of use Pathfinder Leaders down under in Australia and New Zealand.  
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:I agree that making the requirement easy for a novice to edit is bad, but making the answers easy to edit is most definitely a Good Thing.  Moving the reqs to their own page would be a very laborious proposal. It would be nearly impossible to coax a bot into doing that right and could easily make a huge mess.  Also, it solves a problem I don't think we have (that is, people coming in and changing the reqs - the NAD was afraid of that, but it hasn't happened here).
 
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:I have the extension working now.  You can see it at [[Sandbox/ComDev]] which is divided into sections, and in [[Sandbox/IAComDev]] which transcludes those sections.  We might want to discuss putting the headers in their own sections and their bodies in another.  That way we could fix the header level problem. 
 
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:Maybe we don't care about header levels on the IA pages though. The problem would be more apparent if the IA pages didn't suppress the table of contents (with <nowiki>__NOTOC__</nowiki>), but if we take that out and look at the TOC, we'd see that the page outlines are very broken.  Not a big deal on the IA pages, but it would be a huge problem on the honor pages (which do not suppress the TOC). --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 19:23, 14 November 2014 (EST)
 
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::Useful tool. In the ADRA/ACS honors and the Serving Others sections there is significant duplication, which I've just transluded for anything called out in IA. Some additional transluctions can be done between ACS-ADRA honors. I can split the few cases where the req and ans and combined, very easy to spot, and remoive any == inside the transluded page.  Then we have full control of text size.
 
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::I checked and there is no problem with the TOC for the honors with transluded requirements. For example this one is 100% in transluded modules. [[Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book/Outreach/Identifying_Community_Needs|Identifying Community Needs]] [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 19:42, 14 November 2014 (EST)
 
  
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[[Investiture_Achievement/Friend/Health_and_Fitness|FRIEND Health and Fitness]] includes 2 requirements from Nutrition. 
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I have started Online honors for the Australian Union Conference and am presenting honors for the British Union Conference due to this COVID-19 lockdown everywhere - below is the YouTube Channel.  
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[[Investiture_Achievement/Companion/Health_and_Fitness|COMPANION Health and Fitness]] includes 3 requirements from Temperance
 
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[[Investiture_Achievement/Explorer/Health_and_Fitness|EXPLORER Health and Fitness]] include a requirement for Christian Grooming and Manners
 
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The answers are not synced at all. Can you translude them Jomegat? [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 18:01, 15 November 2014 (EST)
 
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:I sectionized Nutrition and included it in Friend.  I'll work on Temperance & Grooming next.  It's not that hard.  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 18:43, 15 November 2014 (EST)
 
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::Still to do - all Nature Study IA vs honor translutions.  Just making a note so we remember. [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 17:37, 16 November 2014 (EST)
 
  
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==IA Basic vs Advanced Presentation==
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQLzp8Fp2QbMXY8keb5rrYg?view_as=subscriber
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Issue 1: There are two or three different approaches to sections that have only Basic or Advanced requirement. Which style do you prefer?:
 
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#The Personal Growth section is a requirement for both the Standard Friend and Trail Friend classes: [[Investiture_Achievement/Friend/Personal_Growth|FRIEND Personal Growth]]
 
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#There are no additional requirements in the Outdoor Living section for Trail Friend. 
 
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[[Investiture_Achievement/Friend/Outdoor_Living|FRIEND Outdoor Living]]
 
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#There are no requirements in the Honor Enrichment section for the Standard Friend level. This section is required only for the Trail Friend level.
 
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[[Investiture_Achievement/Friend/Honor_Enrichment|FRIEND Honor Enrichment]]
 
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:I prefer the second of these, but do not have a strong preference. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 17:45, 6 November 2014 (EST)
 
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::I also like the second version. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 17:52, 6 November 2014 (EST)
 
  
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Issue 2: I can make these lines more generic so they can be turned into transcluded modules which will make translation faster. Ie "There are no additional requirements in this section for the Advanced ribbon."
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Along with this I do a worksheet and Certificate, once the Pathfinders have show evidence of completion.
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We have found that a lot of clubs across Australia are using it in there Pathfinder Zoom Meeting and Pathfinders are doing the Honors in there spare time.  
  
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[[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 16:42, 6 November 2014 (EST)
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This channel is still in its infancy as I have only completed 5 honors - I am planning to release an honor every week.  
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:Absolutely. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 17:45, 6 November 2014 (EST)
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What I have done so far has received great feedback.  
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Done and all sections are consistent now. [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 19:54, 6 November 2014 (EST)
 
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:Very good and excellent work.--[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 19:55, 6 November 2014 (EST)
 
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:Wonderful work on adding the new IA templates and really unifying the curricula throughout the wiki. As a user, it makes it so much easier to navigate and understand how all the classwork is really linked together. As a translator, it just simply makes the job easier. Nice! --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 00:59, 13 November 2014 (EST)
 
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:I've got additional work to do in this vein. Don't start translating IA until I let you know IA is all restructured and ready.
 
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:jomegat how to create a Category or template called "Honors tied to IA?"    I'd like to standardize and template how we show the IA connections at top of every connected honor. [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 19:56, 13 November 2014 (EST)
 
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::Creating a category is easy - just add it to the page a la <nowiki>[[Category:Category Name|sort key]]</nowiki>.  It will show up as a red link at the bottom of the page.  Click on it and it will let you create a page (but even if the page doesn't exist, the category will).  You can add text to the page. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 20:24, 13 November 2014 (EST)
 
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::Actually, I think I can automate that if the IA page uses the ay_prerequisite template.  If it doesn't, we can still add the category manually. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 20:33, 13 November 2014 (EST)
 
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:::Nope. Harder than I thought. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 21:00, 13 November 2014 (EST)
 
  
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==Sortable List==
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Below is the dropbox with the sample worksheet and certificate.
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Last night while the wiki was read-only, I experimented with my own copy of the wiki on my laptop, basically implementing the sortable index.  I guess I spent three hours on that, but the result looks pretty good.  When I get home from work, I will upload the new index (and associated templates).  As of now, there is a column for "year", but it's not filled in yet.  I am exploring ways to make that automatic, by extracting it from the honor's page. I also did work to add the development stage (0-100%) to the honor_desc template, and will auto-extract that into the indices as well (so we don't have to update it in the main index and in the category indices).  I've got a proof-of-concept working on the skill level column, but... I'm not sure I like it.  The approach I took might make the site substantially slower.  But it's a start.  Since I am monolingual, I am happy to work on that sort of thing instead of translation. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 12:43, 2 October 2014 (EDT)
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https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0marrqlhy2emf8b/AACuCNbWy5kUyQ11S6jmUCCGa?dl=0
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:Sortable list on main page looks awesome. How do we control the stage icon? [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 19:44, 5 October 2014 (EDT)
 
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::I'm glad you like it.  The stage data is extracted from the honor's honor_desc template (I added a "stage" argument).  Just update it in the honor, and the index will get it.  Whenever we're ready, we can switch the category indices over to use the honor_entry template too.  I don't mind working on that, as it could be something I can program the robot to take care of.  But I have to tend to non-wiki things this week, so I might not get around to it for a little while.  Feel free to step in and try it out.  I will eventually try to extract the year from the honor_desc template too, but the way I'm doing it now does not scale well.  It's OK for only five stagesw, or three skill levels, but for 85 years of honor intro dates... that's going to be a problem.  I will want to think about that some more before acting. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 21:36, 5 October 2014 (EDT)
 
−
I dont see the year as a really useful thing to sort by except maybe to find new honors. Does anyone say "I'm going to earn honors from 1968 now"? I did some checking and everythings seems good, just the first honor I checked must have had different % between the Category and Front pages due to me not updating it. WAY easier to do the % update on the honor page instead of the really hard to read list! I'll keep working toward getting honors to 100% since I can't translate. JadeDragon
 
  
−
:Getting the year on the index page is definitely a low priority.  The thought was that being able to sort by year would be a good replacement for the "new" icon.  Actually... that could be automatic now, just by checking that the honor is in one of the categories for the past two years, and then adding the new icon.  Hmm. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 21:34, 6 October 2014 (EDT)
+
I would be interested in you feedback.  
−
::OK, that was easy.  I usurped the "Year" column and made it the "new" column.  "New" is any honor made in 2013, 2014, and getting ready for next year... in 2015.  Sometime next year we should update the [[Template:isNewHonor]] template. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 22:11, 6 October 2014 (EDT)
 
−
<br />I notice that you're making some changes to the Category pages, so just let me know when you think youŕe mostly done so I can start translating. I assume the plan is to use the sortable lists on all the Honor Category pages so I'm going to see what templates really do need to be translated and which ones can be left alone and still work. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 20:44, 22 October 2014 (EDT)
 
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:Yes, that is the plan.  I'll let you know when I'm done. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 20:48, 22 October 2014 (EDT)
 
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::Arts & Crafts through Outreach are done now.  I'm working my way down the list, but I'm done for the evening. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 21:15, 22 October 2014 (EDT)
 
−
:::Nice. I have to manually go one by one with each honor and translate the name, so it takes a while. I'm also adding the names of the new SAD honors, even though I've only added the requirements to a handful. The Spanish lists will sometimes be almost twice as long as their English counterparts. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 22:10, 22 October 2014 (EDT)
 
  
−
== Primary vs Secondary Honors vs prerequisites ==
+
I would also be keen to help you all as much as I can.
  
−
The honor_desc template has an argument called secondary which can be set to true.  This prevents that page from being counted in the honor counts, and is used in honors where there are answers with regional variants (such as Currency). 
+
Blessings to all
−
 
+
Phil
−
I'm thinking I might want to change the way that works so that rather than setting it to true (and calling it secondary), we would instead add a new argument which would point to its primary, and if it is primary, it would not set that field at all.  The intended use of this argument would be so we could pass it along to the "See also" page (which would have to become a template, as pages don't take arguments).  "See Also" displays all the pages belonging to a category <nowiki>[[Category:Adventist Youth Honors Answer Book/Prerequisites/(this page name)]]</nowiki>.  Instead, honor_desc will pass it the name of the primary if there is one, or the honor name if there is not.  In other words, instead of a secondary honor checking that it is a prereq, it will check if its primary honor is.
 
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The alternative is to include every variant of an honor as a prerequisite in the pages where the primary is a prerequisite.  And although that would work (kinda, but badly), it would also create a maintenance headache - for example, when people create a new variant of Currency, someone would then have to edit Currency - Advanced to add the new variant as a prereq.  Ouch.
 
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My thought is that if we add a new arg to honor_desc, we could use it for both prereqs as well as knowing to count (or not count) an honor in the tallies.
 
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I think all translated honors should set the primary field to the English primary.  The translated "See Also" templates will know to tack on the language code and link to that honor.  Honors that have disambiguation pages (i.e., a list of variants) should be the representative primary for that whole group (State Study, Christian Citizenship, etc). This way I think the list of sequels will work in any language, and the honor counts will be correct.
 
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−
Before I move on this, I need to see how else the secondary is used so I don't break something.
 
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Thoughts? --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 18:40, 19 November 2014 (EST)
 
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:Great idea. I don't believe secondary is used in any other fashion besides the counts. I have always tried to defer the counts to the English pages anyway because if not, the count would include the other hundred or so SAD honors that I haven't yet added requirements to. And if this will help with a translatable and usable «See Also» page, even better. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 19:11, 19 November 2014 (EST)
 
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::It's in progress now.  I'm hand editing all the honors in [[:Category:Adventist Youth Honors Answer Book/Secondary]] to add primary=blah to their honor_desc.  The honor counts may be off while I do this.  Didn't think I could get the bot to do it for me either.  An added benefit is that we no longer have false alarms on sequels - if the honor has no sequels, the sequels box should not appear.  No more expanding to check.  I like that! --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 22:07, 19 November 2014 (EST)
 
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::: Well that is a nice feature. A general rule of thumb in web design is the less clicking there has to be done, the better the layout is perceived by the reader. I guess it just means people like being lazy ... --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 22:31, 19 November 2014 (EST)
 
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Now that the sequels stuff has been worked out, would it be wise to remove the link to the advanced honor from the honor_desc box?  Should we not collapse the sequels box?  Should we look at collapsing it only if it has more than N (and if so, what does N equal)? --
 
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[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 12:34, 20 November 2014 (EST)
 
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:I personally like having the link to the advanced honor in the honor_desc box. I feel as if it is more important to show that the honor has a direct continuation, regarding the same topic, so it should be highlighted more, as it currently is.
 
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:I think having a non-collapsible sequels box is preferred. I think people are less prone to click for more information than they are to scroll down. Maybe we could collapse it if it has more than five (which I can't think of any honor at the moment that might have more than that). --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 16:53, 20 November 2014 (EST)
 
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::OK, I will leave the advanced honors in the box.  There are indeed some honors that serve as prerequisites to more than 5 other honors/IA requirements (the new stuff does not distinguish).  Also, I found there is a better DynamicPageList extension that gives better control over the output formatting - so potentially we could add graphics, suppress full page names, etc.  I will look into that.  Meanwhile, I could change the sequels box to show up to five, and those beyond five would be collapsed & expandable.  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 17:34, 20 November 2014 (EST)
 
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:::First Aid, Standard - 7 honors and IA Ranger.
 
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:::Intermediate Swimming is a prereq on 11 honors.
 
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:::Can't see a reason to collapse 8 or 11 but not 5 as each takes just one line. If we set the sequels box to never collapse an made it sit tight to the header box and maybe same color we could dispense with the See also link in the header. I'm not a fan of all the various boxes separated with different offsets and widths. [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 19:35, 21 November 2014 (EST)
 
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== IA desc ==
 
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I've been beating the See Also template into submission, but I'm not quite there yet.  The problem I'm trying to solve with it is getting it to display the page's title (which may be a translation) vs the page name (which is the link).  I have a path forward, as the new dpl extension give us a nifty way to extract template arguments from a page.  In other words, if a page that it lists contains a template (such as honor_desc), and that template has an argument we want (such as honorname), we can pull that out and use it as the link name.  It was an incredible battle trying to tease that out of the documentation.
 
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−
However, the "See Also" template wants to return IA pages as well as honor pages, and IA pages do not have an honor_desc template.  This can be solved by creating [[:Template:IA desc]], which I have already done.  Right now it has very little info in it - the name of the class, and the display name of the page.  I will be changing "See Also2" (which is the experimental version of "See Also") to extract the translated page name from there, but it could take me a week (so you might want to hold off on translations).
 
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−
Meanwhile, is there any information you can think of that we ''should'' add to IA_desc?  I know there are a ton of things we ''could'' add - but there's no need to go bananas.  Stage might be a good addition, but are there others?  We do not need "insignia" as this header will be placed on all eight sections of an IA class's pages, and they do not have separate insignia associated with them.  Skill level and year really do not apply either. 
 
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Anyhow, if you think of anything we should add to it (or want to suggest what it should look like), the best place to do so would be on its [[:Template Talk:IA desc|talk page]].  Here's what it looks like now: (removed to prevent us from adding the discussion page to wrong categories).
 
−
<!--- {{IA_Desc|class=Friend|pagename = Experimental}}--->
 
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Feedback please! --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 12:19, 24 November 2014 (EST)
 
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== See Also ==
 
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OK, I have something that might kinda work for the "See Also" template.  The one thing is does that I don't like is that it will not list the "See Also's" unless the answer key for that page exists.  That's OK for English, as all the pages ''do'' exist for that, but for Spanish, they do not (yet).  I have examples of what it does at [[Sandbox/See Also/test]] - which shows the see-also's for Trees and Trees/es.  So the question is - is that preferable to showing the link in English?  I think it might be, as the "doesn't exist yet" problem is temporary.  If it were fixed, it would either point to a red link or to an English version of the page. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 19:05, 25 November 2014 (EST)
 
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:Very nice! I have no idea what you did, I'll check out the history, but that looks great. I'm working on translating the honors as fast as I can! I'm just trying to focus on getting the requirements and have the pages exist before I go on to translate the answers. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 19:41, 25 November 2014 (EST)
 
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If I understand the question correctly, I think a red link in Spanish is better than a live English link that has to be change. At the rate he is going all the Honors requirements will be up soon enough. As I get more time I hope to get answers for the rest of the English Honors up but what is left is some of the hardest stuff to write up properly (welding anyone?) and/or stuff I really have to research hard. [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 19:45, 25 November 2014 (EST)
 
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:I agree that a red link would be better.  If I think of a way to make that happen, I'll give it a go.  But the consensus seems to be to move ahead with this as is.  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 19:55, 25 November 2014 (EST)
 
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::If it's possible, red link, of course. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 20:02, 25 November 2014 (EST)
 
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== [[:Template:Honor index]] ==
 
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After learning some of the ropes of the new DPL extension (while working on See Also), I hacked together a really [[:Template:Honor index|cool template]] that will generate an honor index much like the one on the front AYHAB page or on the honor category pages.  It takes up to three category parameters (named cat, cat2, and cat3) and a "lang" template (for specifying the language).  It creates a sortable table of all the honor pages in all of the specified categories.  [[Sandbox/test]] has two examples of its use.  The first shows all the Nature honors that have been translated into Spanish.  The second shows all the Household Arts honors at Skill Level 2.
 
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−
I could easily add more cat parameters, and if we want, I could add some "excat" (exclude category) parameters as well.
 
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What makes this cool is I was able to extract the honor insignia and year from the honor_desc template in all the honors and show them in the table.  Nice!
 
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We will not need to translate this template, as it works for any language.
 
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Cool factor aside, this will eliminate the need for us to create indices manually.  All we have to do to get an honor to show up in an index is add it to the categories the page wants (and honor_desc already mostly takes care of that).  The question is... should we replace the indices we have with this?  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 15:39, 26 November 2014 (EST)
 
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Adding the honors to the lists alphabetically and manually is a big pain. I synchronized the 8 category lists with the main page list and found a few errors.  The translated honor names will not be alphabetical in the new language if they just follow the English order, so anything that helps automate this is welcome.  I love showing the honor images - that was on my to do list of something to try. [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 16:06, 26 November 2014 (EST)
 
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:Lovin' it. Yes, yes and yes. Show the patches; replace indices; add/exclude whatever. I think it is a very nice improvement. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 16:39, 26 November 2014 (EST)
 
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:True, though, that the names don't seem to be alphabetized in the Spanish version. I think default should be alphabetized instead of having to click for it to sort it that way. How can that be arranged? And the labels at the top of the table will need to be translated. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 16:44, 26 November 2014 (EST)
 
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::Oh yes... the column headers.  We will have to translate then, but I will limit the translation to just the header name fields.  I want to ring this out a bit more before going live with it.  I'll dig into the sort key issue too.  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 16:49, 26 November 2014 (EST)
 
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Right now, sorting is done based on the full page name (AYHAB/category/honorname).  I have added a sortkey to all the categories in honor_desc, but sometimes it takes the database a while to catch up on such things, so I'm not sure if it worked (and it may not have).  There are ways of making the sort happen ''after'' the page loads, but they look incredibly cumbersome to me, and I don't know that I want to try them out.  There won't be a problem using this template on the honor category pages, as the category shows up in the page name before the honor name, and thus, all the pages will be sorted as we wish in that case.  But on the main index page, there might not be much we can do about the sort order.  All the ADRA honor will come first, then Arts and Crafts, etc.  I will keep looking, but it doesn't look great. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 18:30, 26 November 2014 (EST)
 
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:One thing I noticed in the [[Sandbox/test]] is the index in Spanish shows the different versions of some honors, like the Cats honor (Gatos). It is showing the different pages for different divisions. How can that be fixed to only show the primary page? Does the Primary argument have to be added? --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 19:06, 26 November 2014 (EST)
 
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::Good catch.  I'll have to think about that one for a bit.  It's a little messy in that if we add Gatos to the primary category, it will be added to the counts (which we don't want).  That's why it's good to move slowly sometimes. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 19:43, 26 November 2014 (EST)
 
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:::I think it is fine for the main page to be sorted by category rather than strictly alphabetically. After all that is how you find the honors in the printed book. Anyone wanting strict alphabetical can have that with a single click. [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 20:47, 26 November 2014 (EST)
 
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::::That was a feature of the printed answer books that I always disliked.  Oh well.  BTW, I have a solution to the triple Gatos problem.  I could brute-force it in to all the others, but am holding off on that until I know I can't finesse it in instead. 
 
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::::In other news, we had a snowstorm yesterday and our power is out.  I'm at the church right now for a couple of hours (where we do have working utilities).  We don't expect our power to be restored today, and perhaps not tomorrow either. So I am Wiki-limited for a bit. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 17:03, 27 November 2014 (EST)
 
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:::::I've got the bot working on it now (finesse).  It's adding the honors that should not appear in a regular index to the AYHAB/noindex category. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 17:51, 27 November 2014 (EST)
 
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::::Quite the trooper! No power, middle of a snowstorm, and still working on the wiki! I hope your Thanksgiving wasn't ruined! --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 11:06, 28 November 2014 (EST)
 
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::::::Not ruined at all.  Just delayed.  One of my sons declared that it was our sitcom Thanksgiving (because it read about like you wold expect a sitcom TG to read). :D We have our power back now, but still no Internet (or cable) service.  Went out for lunch today and ordered a side of free wifi. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 12:46, 28 November 2014 (EST)
 
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Internet service is back at my house.  I have created a test page at [[Sandbox/AYHAB]] which may eventually replace the main honor page.  Please take a critical look at it. Here are a few things I have discovered:
 
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* Whenever we accidentally create an English translation of a page, it will show up here.
 
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* The Honor_index template does not gracefully handle the lack of an insignia image - we will have to deal with that somehow.
 
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* It found some test pages that I had created earlier - I have deleted them.  I could also have added them to the noindex category.
 
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All this does point out the weak point in an automatically curated front page - it will find things we might not want it to find.  However, I think it may well be worth it.  I will create test index pages for the Honor category pages (Arts & Crafts, Nature, etc) and we can look for problems there too before going live. 
 
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Great work. Currently the wiki inserts the honor keys image if no honor image is specified. If we specified the honor keys image in the header template as a placeholder it would show up in the index instead of the patch. I'll try that when I'm on my computer. [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 14:55, 29 November 2014 (EST)
 
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:That should work.  I've changed honor_desc so that if the insignia is set to the keys image it will still add it to [[:Category:No insignia image]].  That way we can easily find those that lack insignia and either continue searching for them, or know to pester someone. I'll change the few honors that have no insignia... --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 16:51, 29 November 2014 (EST)
 
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::Your changes moved the "Limited Availability" beside the honor token from below the token. Not as pretty. [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 18:12, 29 November 2014 (EST)locat
 
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:::Fixed! --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 18:24, 29 November 2014 (EST)
 
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I have made the change.  The eight index pages plus the main page now use Honor_index to create the indices.  As always, please report any problems if you notice any. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 18:24, 29 November 2014 (EST)
 
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:I notice the Spanish index does not alphabetize by default. Is there a way to fix that so it can be consistent with the English version? --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 11:26, 30 November 2014 (EST)
 
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::Yes - I'll need to change the Honor_desc/es template to add the honorname as the sort key in all the categories. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 11:57, 30 November 2014 (EST)
 
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:::Done.  It might take a bit for the database to catch up.  It has to notice that pages that include honor_desc/es now have category sort keys.  You can force the issue by performing a null edit (edit & save without making changes), but it's a lot easier to adjust the patience threshold knob upwards a bit and wait for it to happen by itself. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 12:07, 30 November 2014 (EST)
 
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I have replaced the Spanish Honor category indices with Honor_index/es, (except for Arts & Crafts).  None of those have been translated yet, so I though the existing one would be better than a new, but empty page.  Also we may have to revisit the Outreach index - the ACS/ADRA sections will almost certainly need to be adjusted.  Those subsections are empty now, but may be incorrect once populated with real pages.  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 12:57, 30 November 2014 (EST)
 
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:Very nice. I'm working on all honors as fast as time and family allows. I haven't worked on the the Arts & Crafts section yet but I'll get there. I think I got translated most of the honors that are needed for IA (except ADRA/ACS), which was more priority for me. Thanks for setting that up, though! It also helps me see how much I've completed and how much still needs to be done, since only the fully translated honors show up. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 14:19, 30 November 2014 (EST)
 
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::Very minor issue, but the Stage column in the new template sorts 0 - 100 - 25 - 50 - 75  [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 20:08, 30 November 2014 (EST)
 
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:::I have addressed that now (in English and in Spanish).  Let me know if you see anything else. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 22:22, 30 November 2014 (EST)
 
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==Honor Category showing as Honorname==
 
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All the honors are showing their honorname where the category should go. The link takes you to the category, but the name appears as of the honor, instead of the category. I'm not sure if that was done intentionally, but I think it would be more beneficial to show the category name instead of the honorname, which seems redundant. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 19:19, 26 November 2014 (EST)
 
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:Thanks for fixing that - it was unintentional.  I was attempting to add a sortkey to all the categories and didn't pay close enough attention to what I was doing.  The good news is that the sortkey appears to be working!  Just so you guys know, when you add a category to a page it's done like this: <nowiki>[[Category:Name of Category|Sort Key]]</nowiki>.  The sort key is optional, and once in place, it takes a while for the database to catch up.  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 17:10, 27 November 2014 (EST)
 
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== Unknown or Blank Year => Not Specified ==
 
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Someone knows the year but has not listed it. OK? [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 19:25, 29 November 2014 (EST)
 
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:Well, ''we'' don't know, so it is unknown to ''us''.  Also, whatever you put there will cause a new category to be created - "Honors introduced in Unspecified".  I think it would be better to stick with one so that we can collect all of that info on a single page.  I don't mind if you change it to unspecified, but if you do, please change them all.  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 19:47, 29 November 2014 (EST)
 
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::Yes that is why I brought it up - all should say the same thing or all blank would be fine too but no category page. I want to agree on the word before I change them all to one thing. [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]])
 
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:::I don't have a strong opinion between blank, Unknown, and Not Specified (though blank would made the column less wide).  I think that if left blank, the template will add it to the unknown category (but I should check).  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 21:46, 29 November 2014 (EST)
 
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::::I just checked - blank does add it to the unknown year category.  I think I prefer blank. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 21:47, 29 November 2014 (EST)
 
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:::::I shall blank them all then. [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 23:09, 29 November 2014 (EST)
 
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==Deletion bot==
 
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(Moved from other topic)
 
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I also plan to run a "delete English translations" bot on a nightly basis.  I have noticed that when we kick off a translation deletion, it ''really'' bogs down the server.  So we will want to schedule such activity at a time where we are not typically doing any heavy editing.  I'm thinking 4:00am Eastern time (1:00am Pacific).  If you plan to do regular editing then, let me know and I can search for a different time slot.  I will also look into a way of excluding pages that end with /en, but that could be tricky.  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 23:29, 28 November 2014 (EST)
 
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:I did not notice this post until now. I have been deleting translations the entire time -_-  I don't know why, but almost every time I mark for translation, it will automatically create an English version. I tried working with the website in Spanish mode to see if it would curb that, but no success. Is the bot running every night and deleting /en pages? The /en pages mess up the indices and also the "See also" template (or whatever is in its place now). --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 19:06, 1 December 2014 (EST)
 
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::I have not done that yet.  I can look into it tonight though. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 19:14, 1 December 2014 (EST)
 
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:::Yes, please. It is a constant battle deleting these pages and they come back every time a new marking is made for translation. Poor Fuzzybot seems to constantly be on the move getting rid of these. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 19:22, 1 December 2014 (EST)
 
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::::Might not be doable.  The delete script is not very flexible when it comes to specifying pages to delete.  I can either retrieve them from a category, get the page names from a file (generated by what?), or name each file explicitly.  The "category" bot script will allow me to add a page to a category using wildcards in the page name, so I thought I'd be able to add the */es pages to "Speedy Delete", and then run the delete bot against that category.  But no dice.  The category bot cannot edit translations (translations can only be translated, not edited, even by a bot).  If I could get over that hurdle, I would then surely face the "You can't delete translations" hurdle (if that exists).  I will continue researching this, but we might not see any results tonight. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 20:08, 1 December 2014 (EST)
 
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Sometimes I ask stupid questions but hopefully they trigger an idea for you. Why are the /en pages not valid? Why not make the /en pages the ones that populate the whole English version of the wiki?  How is English different then any other language in the wiki?  If we translate to fr or Greek will these /en pages get created everytime a page is marked for translation?  If so maybe we should work with them instead of against the en pages.
 
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Say an honor is added in Spanish with Spanish answers, can I go in and translate that to English?  What if answers are supplied in Spanish, will we know to translate them to English?  Certainly I can personally make perfect English sense from Spanish but not the reverse. So if W126 wants to just type in (or point me at an online source for) Spanish Honors I can translate a bunch to English.
 
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It seems like to me that this wiki can be a fantastic tool for getting the requirements into every language used in Pathfinders far more cost effectively then translating and printing material, and faster. A huge benefit to the whole world if used correctly.
 
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:The translate extension requires that all translations come from "the source language" which in our case is English.  It is not possible to translate from Portuguese to English.  I did some asking on mediawiki, and learned that the /en stuff ''should'' perhaps be considered as valid.  This would be most useful for transcluded content, as the /en version is stripped of the translate tags (which we strip ourselves by surrounding with noinclude tags).  I hae not fully digested all of that yet, and at this point, I don't know if that's the way for us to go.  They also strongly suggested that the TNT template would solve a lot of problems, but SimpuleUpdates (our provider) will not allow that extension as it opens a security hole.  They did not answer my main question, which was "how can we avoid creating the /en pages?"
 
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:I do think that rather than fighting the /en pages, we should learn to live with them.  That may mean suppressing them from Honor_index and See_Also.  It would be nice if we could quit rolling that stone up the hill. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 08:36, 2 December 2014 (EST)
 
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::From what I researched, many times the answer provided was the TNT template. We'll make due, though. Really, there are only two issues with the /en pages: they show up in the indices & See Also template, doubling the names; and they mess up the count. If suppressing them can fix that, there'd be no other pertinent reason to keep deleting them. Though, if we can find out how to not create them in the first place, all the better. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 08:51, 2 December 2014 (EST)
 
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:::I have changed Honor_index and See_Also to exclude all pages that end with /en.  So I think we can quit fighting.  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 19:39, 2 December 2014 (EST)
 
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::::Excellent! I deleted the last few /en pages just for old time's sake. Now we won't have to worry about them showing up in the indices. Will they mess up the count, though? --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 21:44, 2 December 2014 (EST)
 
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:::::I'm glad you asked, because the answer was yes - /en pages ''were'' being added to the counts.  Now they are not. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 22:29, 2 December 2014 (EST)
 
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== Possible NAD Concerns ==
 
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I have been thinking about all of the SAD honors we've been adding.  Though I personally love having them here, I'm afraid the NAD will not be happy if/when they notice.  They already did notice (but I don't think they knew how many we had), and asked that we make it plain that AdventSource did not carry the Volleyball.  That's when I added the "Limited Availability" notice to the patches.
 
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My thoughts are that we might be able to add a drop-down Division selector which would default to NAD.  The honors shown in the index could then depend on the selected Division.  We would still have the SAD honors, and though they would be hidden by default, they would be easy to reveal.  It would be cool if we could detect the user's IP address and choose a default division for them, but that might be asking too much.  In any case, a user would always be able to see what other divisions offer without too much effort. 
 
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I might experiment with this to see if it's possible, but I do not plan to act on it unless the NAD asks me to fix it.  They are, after all, paying for the host provider. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 22:42, 2 December 2014 (EST)
 
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:Dixie told me the committees were unhappy that SAD just published so many honors without talking to anyone else. They are working through the SAD honors to see what they can adopt. Someone noticed that someone in FL is adding them to the Wiki and "they have been spoken too".  I'd say we are very carefully showing what has been approved where and that we are trying to build a worldwide resource, so we should do what is right for the Pathfinders. If it becomes an issue we can move the SAD ones off to the regional section, or an SAD section off the main index. [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 00:38, 3 December 2014 (EST)
 
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::It is my understanding that each Division is autonomous and works independently and does not need permission or approval from another, in regards to creating new honors. The SAD set up a committee with the leaders within their own territory and decided to create these honors. Who would they need to "talk to"? And what would they need to "talk to" someone for? For approval, for permission? I don't understand why the NAD or any other Division would be unhappy in that regard.
 
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::I agree with JadeDragon that we, as contributors, would like to see this site become a worldwide resource. But I understand what Jomegat pointed out too; this site is funded and provided by the NAD and they will have final say on what is appropriate for display on their site. I'm not sure what the problem really is showing the FL honors, though, since we have specified that they are Conference-level only and not approved by the NAD.
 
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::Again, I just find it odd that the committees of the NAD are "unhappy" with what another Division is doing for their own population. Much Spirit-led prayer needed to correctly address this.  --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 01:18, 3 December 2014 (EST)
 
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:::She is on both the NAD and GC Honor committees so I don't know who was upset. If SAD had sent the honors up to the GC to start with they could have gone global right off, but then NAD and SPD do whatever they want too. She did say there is an effort to bring the GC and NAD variations together. Why all the politics?  Glad I'm far outside that. [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 04:20, 3 December 2014 (EST)
 
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::::Sending the honors straight to GC would have been a tremendous work to go through for the SAD. Most of their new honors were originally written in Portuguese. They had to spend about another 6 months taking the time to translate them to Spanish. To further translate them again to English to send them off for GC approval would have been another enormous task, especially since that is not the native language of any of the leadership there. It would seem unfair that SPD and NAD can approve their honors within a year but have the SAD wait almost 2 and a half years to get theirs approved by the GC, and then finally distribute the new honors to their population. I wonder who represents the SAD in the GC committee? Does the SAD have representation? Maybe they could address this?
 
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::::And personally, I love the politics. I think it helps sort things out (refined in the fire, anyone?) and fix it for the better, especially when it is done according to the leading of the Spirit ;-) -- [[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 10:05, 3 December 2014 (EST)
 
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:::::And in BC I noticed the Conf uses FL honors at camporee since it is unlikely anyone has earned them, so yes making the resource more widely available is helpful. [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 13:27, 3 December 2014 (EST)
 
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==Obsolete Page==
 
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I've been musing and I was just wondering what opinions might be about including a page where we can post honors that are obsolete. A page to go to where it would state in a big heading that these honors are no longer in circulation or available. Some examples I am thinking of are the NAD skateboarding honor and the Church Heritage Award (which will be replaced with Adventist Pioneer Heritage). There we could provide links to the honors that now replace them, if available. It would help clear up for many which honors are in circulation and which ones should be taught.
 
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I don't mean regional honors, since they are still valid within their respective conferences. I mean honors that literally were wiped out of existence for one reason or another. I'm sure there are a few others out there and I think it would help dispel rumors or incorrect information that might be out there. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 12:55, 4 December 2014 (EST)
 
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:Isn't Skateboarding still in circulation outside the NAD?  BTW, I am in favor of your proposal.  It would be kind of a museum of ancient honors.  We might also consider adding an obsolete field to Honor_desc - if present, it would add the page to the AYHAB/Obsolete page, and then we'd be able to filter them out of the main indices and auto-create the Obsolete index. Another option would be to add them to an AYHAB/<nowiki>{{</nowiki>division}}/Obsolete category so we could control their exclusion by division.  Incidently, I'm thinking the division drop-down selector is looking more and more likely.  It's more a question of how and when rather than if (though "if" is still a question).  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 13:26, 4 December 2014 (EST)
 
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::The Skateboarding honor is indeed still in circulation outside the NAD. I guess what I meant was insignia patches and/or requirements. I'm thinking about the many people I've seen that ask "what patch is this?" and the answer is that it is an antique. This wouldn't be for miscategorized honors (a la Optics white background to purple) but for honors whose entire design or requirements have changed dramatically (Swimming honors?).
 
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::It kind of would be like a museum, which I like. Again, we would make sure to emphasize that earning these honors would be pointless since they're not in circulation. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 15:10, 4 December 2014 (EST)
 
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I'm not aware of any honors that are obsolete.  Quite a few have been recategorized over the years, or had the requirements changed significantly.The vocationals were discontinued and reintroduced. [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 03:28, 14 December 2014 (EST)
 
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:In 2012, Drawing and Painting was replaced by Drawing, Drawing - Advanced, Painting, and Painting - Advanced.  There may be others, but my history with Pathfinders does not go back that far.  I think it would also be pretty cool to offer a gallery of retired insignia.  For instance, the insignia for Basic Rescue used to show a St John's cross.  Native American Lore used to show a multi-colored headdress (which was a historical inaccuracy). --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 22:22, 14 December 2014 (EST)
 
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::Yes, Teaching used to have a US flag and I think Caving insignia was changed.  The patch for Drawing and Painting was assigned to Painting so it is not really obsolete.  Dixie is collecting error patches and wants to put them online someday. She'd know about any obsolete patches out there.  [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 03:43, 15 December 2014 (EST)
 
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:::"Retired insignia" - That is the perfect way to describe it, I just couldn't put a name to it. That is the basic idea.
 
−
:::Also, the St. John's cross was used for First Aid, not Basic Rescue and I <i>believe</i> it is still the official version for other Divisions that don't operate in coordination with the Red Cross, such as the SPD or the TED. In fact, one of the pre-requirements states that British countries can complete the honor by passing the "St. John's Ambulance" course. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 12:38, 15 December 2014 (EST)
 
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== Main Navigation Menu on Left ==
 
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At some point soon I'd like to see [[Achievement Classes]] added to the navigation - but can't see where to do that. [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 13:01, 15 December 2014 (EST)
 
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== Category Listings as Pagename ==
 
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As I work on translating category pages, I'm wondering if there is a way to have the listings or links show up as their pagename instead of the entire link. I see that one of the parameters put is to replace the long link name with the honorname but this is not happening. It makes the lists cumbersome and difficult to navigate or read through. Is the wrong parameter being used? --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 00:12, 6 July 2015 (EDT)
 
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:There is no way to do that.  The parameter is a sort key, not a display name.  If we removed it, all the honors would show up under "A" for "Adventist Youth Honors Answer Book".  I know that makes categories less useful - especially for translations, but there's really nothing we can do about it - except perhaps include something like an honor index in the category page.  That would create a table with translated names, which would be followed by the unformatted pagenames.  I am working on a new template that will do that, but it doesn't work yet. :-/  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 07:55, 6 July 2015 (EDT)
 
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::I thought as much. It was just a question to see if anything could be done about it, just to make it easier to read through. I don't think most editors would use much the category pages anyway. If a template works, though, let's try it. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 09:17, 6 July 2015 (EDT)
 
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:::Yeah, categories are more of a tool for managing the data.  Still, it would be good if the pages looked a little more presentable. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 10:46, 6 July 2015 (EDT)
 
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::::Seems to work:
 
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{{Honor category|cat=Adventist Youth Honors Answer Book/Household Arts}}
 
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:::::So then this would work kind of like the Master Award pages. They are Category pages but have the index template at the top. Wouldn't the honorindex template work for this? Or is a new template like honorcategory necessary? --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 11:58, 6 July 2015 (EDT)
 
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::::::It would work after a fashion - but because it automatically excludes some pages, it's not exactly what we'd want.  Right now it works, but only with pages that include honor_desc.  Ideally, it would list every page as we'd want to see it, but since that info has to be extracted from the honor_desc template arguments, it really has to be there for it to work at all.  Honor_category is very similar to Honor_index, but I removed the capability for it to specify more than one category or to exclude anything.  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 22:41, 6 July 2015 (EDT)
 
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== Deletion Request at Wikibooks ==
 
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I have requested the deletion of the original version of this wiki developed over at Wikibooks.  The intent is to force its deprecation, since development of the material (and technology) has been focused here since this version was created.  A lot of people have the old site bookmarked, and when they find that the material there is "good enough" they do not find our site here.  If the material is removed there, it should move this wiki to the top of Google (et al) searches.
 
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I do not know how the request will be received there.  So far, it has been roundly ignored with no comments or votes either for or against.  You can follow the proceedings at https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wikibooks:Requests_for_deletion#Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book
 
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If the WB community votes to keep the material, there is really nothing we can do about it.  I have also asked that we be allowed to replace the main page with a link to this wiki.  As the primary contributor to that version, my request should carry substantially more weight than if someone with no connection to the project there made the same request.  We'll see how it goes.  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 13:15, 21 July 2015 (EDT)
 
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: I think that is a wise choice. It would be much better to redirect to this site so those who are seeking helps can actually benefit reom this much larger material. All the better if it pushes this wiki to the top of a Google search. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 16:18, 21 July 2015 (EDT)
 
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:: . . . soooo, what is going on with the deletion process? Has the community decided not to delete it and keep it instead? It seems like sufficient time has elapsed and that permission should have been granted for deletion to begin. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 22:43, 10 September 2015 (EDT)
 
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:::The short answer is "nothing."  Almost nobody has even commented on the request.  The good news is that no one has opposed it.  The bad news is that no one has decided that the vote is over and should be acted upon.  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 19:06, 11 September 2015 (EDT)
 
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::::Is there a way to expedite the process and close the vote, or should I sign in under a bunch of different usernames and vote to close? (kidding . . . kind of)
 
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:::::No, don't do that.  When I was active there, we were very good at detecting that.  I will contact some of the admins and ask them to look into it. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 08:01, 12 September 2015 (EDT)
 
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:::::::I had not voted, so I closed the vote. I then blanked the first few Art and Crafts honors. I don't have the power to delete whole pages, do you? [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 21:42, 17 September 2015 (EDT)
 
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== New Honors ==
 
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New SAD Origion honor at GC level. Making note here so it can be added here. Adaptive Sports. http://gcyouthministries.org/Ministries/Pathfinders/Honors/tabid/85/agentType/View/HonorID/721/Default.aspx [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 12:13, 8 October 2015 (EDT)
 
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:I added it and provided complete answers. [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 02:51, 19 October 2015 (EDT)
 
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::This honor, originally in Spanish and Portuguese, was first titled Paralypmic Sports by the South American Division. The General Conference reviewed it, made some changes to its requirements, and retitled it Adaptive Sports. I had already uploaded this insignia under its previous name. You can see what the original insignia looked like under the SAD [http://www.investitureachievement.org/wiki/index.php/File:Adapted_Sports.png here]. I changed the insignia to the original one I uploaded so that it could have a clear background, since the insignia you uploaded had a white square background. [[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 12:39, 19 October 2015 (EDT)
 
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:::Perfect. I knew it needed fixing. [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 12:55, 19 October 2015 (EDT)
 
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==Nearly Complete Categories==
 
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We almost have all the Health & Science and Household Honors to 100%. I'll finish Viruses shortly. The tough ones are Tailoring and Advanced Dressmaking.  With a little effort Nature can be brought to 100% too.  [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 02:51, 19 October 2015 (EDT)
 
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Tailoring done. Just one left. [[User:JadeDragon|JadeDragon]] ([[User talk:JadeDragon|talk]]) 15:43, 7 November 2015 (EST)
 
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== Image Issues ==
 
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The Birds honor is not the only honor having issues with its images. It seems to be throughout the site. I'm not sure if it has to do with only WikiCommons images or all of them. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 13:05, 6 November 2015 (EST)
 
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:Sigh.  I'll look into it when I can. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 16:54, 6 November 2015 (EST)
 
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::Wikimedia Commons made a change recently to require https vs http.  The correct "fix" on our end is to upgrade to a new release of the wiki software.  That's an extended project.  I have applied the incorrect, but expedient fix.  But we do need to update soon. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 17:08, 6 November 2015 (EST)
 
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:::For future reference, here's what I did: [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T102566] --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 17:09, 6 November 2015 (EST)
 
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::::Any plans on upgrading for the new year? Or was it done already? --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 14:30, 16 January 2016 (EST)
 
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:::::No, I have not applied an update.  I am very pressed for time these days.  I hope things let up before the end of February, but we'll see. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 19:36, 16 January 2016 (EST)
 
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== Template Brackets and Translation ==
 
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Just for future reference, please, whenever including a template that has information that spans more than a paragraph, please do one of the following: either keep it all together with no spaces between paragraphs or include the opening and closing brackets in their own line. For example:<br /><br />
 
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{{templatename<br />info info info<br />info info info info<br />Other paragraph other paragraph}}<br />
 
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<br />OR<br /><br />
 
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{{<br /><br />templatename<br />info info info<br />info info info info<br />Other paragraph other paragraph<br /><br />}}<br /><br />
 
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I ask this because when attempting to translate, if there is a break anywhere between the opening and closing brackets, the software will divide each of these separations into translatable chunks. When this happens, the software does not recognize that the template should all go together and be seen as one unit. I then cannot properly translate these chunks because the translation software will not save the translation, thinking there is an error.<br /><br />I have had to go in every once in a while and edit the text to either separate or put together the template brackets so that I might be able to properly save the translation. If it sounds confusing, just let me know and I will try to explain it better. Thanks!<br /><br /> --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 07:51, 16 December 2015 (EST)
 
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:Can you provide a link to an edit diff that shows what you did to fix one?  That would be the easiest way to explain it. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 22:36, 16 December 2015 (EST)
 
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::[http://www.investitureachievement.org/wiki/index.php?title=Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book/Species_Account/Somniosus_microcephalus&diff=prev&oldid=178702 Here] is an example of an edit I did, separating the opening and closing brackets into their own lines. Before I made the edit, the chunks marked to translate were separated into two; the chunk before "|range" and the chunk after it. These are parts, though, of the same template. For some odd reason, the software will not save the translation chunk if it is missing a pair of brackets. I have to edit it so that the brackets are either on their own separate lines (thereby making each pair of brackets their own translatable chunk) or eliminate any spaces between paragraphs so that the chunk includes both pairs of brackets. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 21:56, 17 December 2015 (EST)
 
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== Year 2016 ==
 
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New Year! New blessings! Let's make 2016 one of the best years and have this Wiki up to 100% before 2017! [[User:RABaker96|RABaker96]] already has us started off with awesome contributions to the Sand honor! Nicely done! --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 18:19, 1 January 2016 (EST)
 
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:Your note spurred me to add the answers to [[Adventist Youth Honors Answer Book/Nature/Water Science|Water Science]] & Advanced using the material submitted to the NAD when the honor was proposed. I've got material for all the 2015 honors if anyone else wants to make use of it for adding answers to other honors.  Drop me a note and I'll send it to you.  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 22:31, 1 January 2016 (EST)
 
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::That's great! Let's keep going and see if we can get others on board! --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 16:37, 2 January 2016 (EST)
 
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== Retired Insignia Page ==
 
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I have been wanting to create [[Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book/Retired_Insignia|this page]] for a long time, as previously discussed in another thread. I finally decided to go ahead and just get it started and see where it goes from there. I'm not sure where a link to it would belong, so I haven't put one up yet. My hope is that it will also be a page with useful information for the Adventist Youth Ministries Museum that Dixie Plata and others are collaborating on.
 
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I still have some more patches around that I want to put up and I know that there are people out there who could definitely contribute too! If you're one of them, upload those images! If anyone has any ideas on how to improve the look, style, formatting, wording, etc., be my guest. I just wanted to get this thing going. [[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 00:48, 30 January 2016 (EST)
 
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:This is a nice addition!  --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 19:30, 30 January 2016 (EST)
 
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::Where would a link to this page be most suitable? We need community members to upload outdated images, but if they can't get to this page, it will not happen. [[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 12:42, 3 February 2016 (EST)
 
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:::Maybe on the main Honor index page.  I've been thinking that we might want to drop the huge image of the key-hand-off from there.  I like the image, and it was developed as the AYHAB book cover.  But online, do we really need a cover?  We could also leave it there but reduce it in size substantially. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 13:09, 4 February 2016 (EST)
 
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::::I like the image also. I would vote to reduce the size, or even refit it as a banner, those that are really wide across. --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 16:07, 4 February 2016 (EST)
 
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== Additional Information? ==
 
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A couple questions here. I know some of them would take quite a while before they could even be started on. but its a thought.
 
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What about possibly creating a link to Other information. Ie: Ay Story, Pathfinder Manual, The Happy Path, Church Heritage etc? and maybe possibly adding on Pathfinder/Master Guide Leadership training courses(The Power points)?
 
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Is there a page set up for Adventurer's honours and the Investiture for them?
 
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Is it possible to incorporate the honours into a Powerpoint slide presentation that could be available for some clubs to use as a guide for teaching the honours?
 
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[[User:Ixoekea|Ixoekea]] ([[User talk:Ixoekea|talk]]) 03:42, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
 
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:All of those are excellent ideas, but we would need to get permission from the copyright holders to add that material here (though if you already know where it exists online, we could certainly add a link to that).  There is an Adventurers project over on Wikibooks (which is where this started before the NAD adopted us).  It would be nice if they would come over here as well.  I have invited them at the NAD level, and though they seemed interested, that's as far as it went.  I'll bring it up again in January during the annual meeting, and see if they are interested in having the person who did the work on Wikibooks move that work over here.
 
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:There is nothing stopping anyone from creating Powerpoints and uploading them here.  If you click on the "Upload file" link in the left panel, you will see that ppt is an acceptable file type.  Then you can add it to a page the same way you'd add an image <nowiki>[[File:filename.ppt]]</nowiki>.  I've thought about doing that myself several times, but my ppt's always look like they were made by a ppt novice (which is in fact, quite true!)
 
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:Another concept I've been playing with is making videos.  We can already embed youtube videos here, but more than that, we can upload them here as well. 
 
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:Thanks for sharing your ideas!  This is how we get better. --[[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] ([[User talk:Jomegat|talk]]) 13:16, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
 
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::Welcome to the Wiki, [[User:Ixoekea|Ixoekea]]! Excited to have you help us collaborating. I think [[User:Jomegat|Jomegat]] already did a good job of answering your questions. I just wanted to mention about the Leadership Training PowerPoints.
 
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::I myself have been an instructor at Leadership Training in a few different conferences. I always have to tweak or change my presentations when presenting in different Conferences, because the material much of the material can be region-specific. For example, I was teaching in one conference the rules of competing in a marching competition. In this certain conference, only Pathfinders or TLTs could be the drill instructors and participate in marching competitions. Yet in another conference where I taught the same thing, their conference allowed adults, directors, and Master Guides to be instructors and participate. Different conferences also have to adhere to different laws according to their region, thus trainings on rules for child abuse, background checks, etc. will vary as well.
 
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::If you look at the new AYMT material provided by the NAD (here is the link: [http://www.pathfindersonline.org/leaders/aymt-training AYMT Training]), their seminar descriptions just give a broad summary of what should be covered in that particular seminar. This was done on purpose so that local leaders can adapt material to suit the needs of their local clubs and churches.
 
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::Basically, what I'm trying to say is that we technically ''could'' put up training seminars, but the NAD is so vast and diverse that it probably wouldn't really assist anyone in actually learning the material they need to know. For example, a training seminar from British Columbia on how to camp during the winter months would probably not really benefit a club from Miami, Florida! This is why each conference is supposed to hold Leadership Conventions or similar at least once a year.
 
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::Even so, I do like your idea of providing PPTs for the honors. That is something that I think would be greatly beneficial to many.
 
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::Blessings and again, welcome! --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 21:35, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
 
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Thanks for the welcome [[User:W126jep|W126jep]] and thanks for clarifying on the AYMT material! :)
 

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ARCHIVES

Wikibooks Pathfinder Honor Answers Update and Updated Honors Workbook

Hello all,

2 questions:

1) I have 2 honors workbook, one from 2000 (or so) and one from 2014. However, there have been some new honors added since 2014 (i.e. Mobile Technology honor, in 2016). Is there an updated honor workbook coming to include the newer honors from 2014 onward, such as the Mobile Technology honor (and others)?

2) The current Wikibooks Pathfinder Honor Answers website isn't updated to reflect a lot of the newer honors, even the 2014 Honors book. Will the Wikibooks website be updated anytime soon?

If we are to broaden our young people's minds and help them grow, us leaders to keep up with the pace and bring everything up-to-date.

Thanks for the reply! ~ Kris

Hi Kris and welcome to the Wiki! Great questions. Here are my responses, you might get other responses from others too:
1) The two workbooks you have, are they from the General Conference or from AdventSource? I ask because the GC Honors has not been updated since their last 2014 edition. However, AdventSource prints material specifically for the North American Division and usually has their material up to date, according to the NAD. I would not know when the GC plans to update their material, especially since Andrés Peralta took over as the new world leader for clubs and is still trying to learn as much as he can. Many times the GC & NAD requirements can differ, so that might also be a discrepancy you also see; this wouldn't necessarily mean one is outdated, only that different versions exist according to their region.
2) This Wiki Answer Book is actually the most updated honors resource in the world. It is comprised of volunteers within the Pathfinder community who are constantly updating the content and keeping it to the day. If you are referring to the previous Wikibooks version, that is the old site and is no longer maintained. There is a message on the front page stating that it was moved to this Wiki.
I hope that helps clarify some things for you. If you still have some doubts, express them here and myself and others will answer to the best of our knowledge! --w126jep (talk) 00:58, 26 May 2019 (EDT)


E-Honors

Hi there, It's been awhile since I have been on here. I noticed many conferences are setting up Online Pathfinder honors (Video/Slideshow) Some require registration and others are being uploaded on youtube, vimeo or other websites. I was wondering what would be the best option to have this linked into a list? Where Pathfinders can watch the video's with the registration link to the conference or something. I would love to talk more on this idea via e-mail or messenger or something else to brainstorm.

This is currently what is available online coming up. Pathfinder Calendar --Ixoekea (talk) 22:19, 11 April 2020 (EDT)

We've noticed this too, and we're exploring possibilities. If you look in User:Jomegat/Do at home we have a list we're building of honors that can be done at home. That index is in my user space right now because it's not ready for prime-time. We might feature the index on the main page, or we might create a dedicated page for it. I'd love to hear any ideas you have - you can just put ideas on this page if you want, or even prototype something in your own user space and we could discuss it there.. --Jomegat (talk) 16:39, 12 April 2020 (EDT)
What I'm wondering is I currently have a facebook group active but the amount of Honor's being videoed by different conferences is starting to become a lot. Like 3 conferences have done Peacemaking, 2 have done firesafety. There is about 20 so far in video's, with this pandemic going for awhile. I could see more and more conferences designing new video's. I know our conference is talking about it. What I am wondering is should these video's be merged into here somehow or would it be best to come up with another site all on Teaching (video's, powerpoint, etc) The video's do have registration links to the conference main site. Maybe link those video's back to here for the honor answer book. I'm just trying to figure out something to merge it all together. I'm open to any suggestions. The Calendar has been the best idea yet for whats coming. But I'm still kinda lost on a video database for the honors. I am thinking of a streaming setup for the videos. Just not sure where to start.

--Ixoekea (talk) 22:22, 12 April 2020 (EDT)

Online Honor Videos

Hi all,

My name is Pr Phil Yates from the Greater Sydney Conference (where I am one of the Youth Director and Pathfinder Director for the conference). I am so appreciative for THIS Pathfinder Website, it has helped and continues to help all of use Pathfinder Leaders down under in Australia and New Zealand.

I have started Online honors for the Australian Union Conference and am presenting honors for the British Union Conference due to this COVID-19 lockdown everywhere - below is the YouTube Channel.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQLzp8Fp2QbMXY8keb5rrYg?view_as=subscriber

Along with this I do a worksheet and Certificate, once the Pathfinders have show evidence of completion. We have found that a lot of clubs across Australia are using it in there Pathfinder Zoom Meeting and Pathfinders are doing the Honors in there spare time.

This channel is still in its infancy as I have only completed 5 honors - I am planning to release an honor every week. What I have done so far has received great feedback.

Below is the dropbox with the sample worksheet and certificate. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0marrqlhy2emf8b/AACuCNbWy5kUyQ11S6jmUCCGa?dl=0

I would be interested in you feedback.

I would also be keen to help you all as much as I can.

Blessings to all Phil

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