User talk:JadeDragon

Welcome to the Pathfinder Wiki, JadeDragon!

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Thanks, --Jomegat 15:00, 11 February 2013 (EST)

Thanks

Hi JadeDragon,

I'm so glad you came over here to contribute. I started the AY Honor Answer Book at Wikibooks (WB) back in 2005. It was a great place to start this project, and it thrived there for seven years. I wanted to expand it to include the AY curriculum, but AY is more overtly religious than the honors are. WB has a neutral point of view (NPOV) policy that would have precluded most of the AY material.

Then the NAD introduced Investiture Achievement, so I proposed that the NAD set up and run a wiki for the instructor's manual, and also import the honor answer book from WB to here. They agreed, and so here we are. We do not have an NPOV policy here, and we are also able to host images of the honor insignia (we could not there because the license for the insignia is not free for any purposed - it's restricted to PF ministries).

Thanks for coming over to help. Anything you can contribute to the Honors is most welcome, as are any contributions you can make to the Investiture Achievement section. I hope to continue expanding this resource in the future. I could see adding the Adventurer program as well as TLT and Master Guide material. The possibilities are endless! --Jomegat 15:00, 11 February 2013 (EST)

You have started and built a great resource! Thanks for sharing the history. Always liked Pathfinder honors.

I've contributed some sections without an account over on WB in the past (African American honor for example). I've spot checked and found the older edits were captured when you imported to the new platform. I also checked my recent edits on WB and transferred them here today.

Being able to see the patches helps motivate me to teach honors :) This resource makes it so much easier to teach and learn.JadeDragon 15:11, 11 February 2013 (EST)

Nice Work!

Your work on Investiture Achievement/Explorer/Spiritual Discovery was exceptional. I am so glad you are a contributor here. --Jomegat 08:03, 24 February 2013 (EST)

Welcome Back

It's sure nice to have you back again. I was especially glad to see that you finished off the Cattle Husbandry honor. Nice! :-) --Jomegat 22:10, 2 April 2014 (EDT)

Never owned a cow, never even eaten one. Ain't the internet grand? JadeDragon 21:25, 8 April 2014 (EDT)

I seem to be on a farming kick. Worked on Pigeon Raising. Just needs a good diagram of a wing and a bit of text on wings. Can you find something we can use without copyright issues?JadeDragon 02:10, 3 April 2014 (EDT)

Maybe this?

ACS Honors

I'm not sure that the ACS honor were created by ACS, so we might want to find a new section heading in the outreach page. My understanding of what happened was that some people from ADRA created the ADRA honors and just announced them without going through the PF organization. The NAD looked at them and had several issues - mostly relating to the fact that ADRA does not operate in the US and Bermuda. Their response was to create a set of analogous honors using ACS as the basis rather than ADRA (since ACS serves ADRA's function in the US and Bermuda). I don't know if the NAD PF organization did that, farmed it out to ACS, or just asked ACS to help with it.

I was not at the last committee meeting, but I know that the NAD decided to not offer the ADRA honors in the NAD. I don't know how that affects Canada (which as you know is in the NAD, but is served by ADRA rather than by ACS). I should dig that up. --Jomegat 12:40, 9 April 2014 (EDT)

It is a messy situation and I am not happy with where I left the page late last night. Decided to think and discuss. The great thing about a wiki is it can be changed.

I prefer a global solution that serves all Pathfinders. Right now we have had valid ADRA honors with good answers that were outside the navigation system on the site.

-GC authorized ADRA honors which remain valid in most of the world.

-SPD Div says you can apply up to two ADRA honors toward Witnessing Master (I added a note to that effect on Witnessing Master Page and added SPD specific wording to all Master pages that need it).

-NAD created their own version of the honors complete with new patches without ADRA letters.

I think we should divide the OUTREACH page into three sections (DONE):

We would incorporate all 9 ADRA honors (as now in the wiki) into the front page alphabetical list (NOT DONE).

We would ensure a note is placed on all ADRA honors that says they are intended for outside NAD and a link to the NAD version, and vice versa on the ACS honors cross linking to the ADRA honors (NOT DONE)

I think this plan cleans up the situation and makes it clear to all users what they should be following.

Your thoughts? JadeDragon 15:22, 9 April 2014 (EDT)

I think you've got an approach that will go a long way towards cleaning up the mess. Go for it! --Jomegat 21:08, 9 April 2014 (EDT)

Admin

I made you an admin on this site, so you now have a few new buttons, including the delete button. It's hidden under the triangle which is between the star and the search box along the top. You also have the capability of blocking users. Use these with care. Admins can also import material from other wikis such as Wikipedia. If you want to do that, I'll put together instructions later. You also have the power to edit IA requirements (but should not unless directed to do so by the NAD). --Jomegat (talk) 07:08, 16 October 2014 (EDT)

Ok, thanks... I think. I'll be able to kill spammers I suppose. JadeDragon (talk) 14:07, 16 October 2014 (EDT)

Transcluding honor sections

I'm getting ready to install a new extension that will allow us to transclude sections from other pages instead of a page in its entirety. The purpose of this will be so we don't have to break honor pages into multiple chunks so we can include them in the IA pages. I wrote about that a bit on the discussion page. --Jomegat (talk) 18:35, 14 November 2014 (EST)

IA Updates

Are the IA requirements and curricula all updated and pretty much completed, so I can move on to translation? Or is there still some maintenance to do? --w126jep (talk) 17:09, 20 November 2014 (EST)

Not to butt in, but... OK, I'm butting in. I would like to revisit those pages again before translation begins. The more I think about it, the less I like reproducing lots of honor content in an IA page - IMO, a link to the honor page is better as it is less cluttered and does not butcher the page's outline/hierarchy. If it's only a couple of paragraphs, transclusion is entirely appropriate. But I don't think we should be including half an honor (or all of one). For the times we do transclude bits of honors, I would like to switch over to the labeled section transclusions vs sub-paging things. --Jomegat (talk) 17:38, 20 November 2014 (EST)

I agree that a link to the honor page would suffice. This would also introduce the reader to more information found in the honor page that s/he might wish to utilize, whereas if the answers are limited to the IA page, this type of discovery would be inhibited. --w126jep (talk) 17:45, 20 November 2014 (EST)

I don't have strong feelings either way. Whatever we do we need to carefully deal with the Serving Others ADRA vs ACS honors. I spent a lot of time sorting that out and suggesting revised IA requirements. There are three possible levels of inclusion:

a) quote the requirement and the answer b) quote the requirement and link to the answer c) link to the honor only.

Also think about how the info will be used. Some users are going to print what they need and take it to a meeting. Some will use it online where they can just click over to the honor. There are benefits to at least spelling out the honor requirements clearly when they are not given directly in the IA requirements. JadeDragon (talk) 18:43, 20 November 2014 (EST)

I like what you did with the ACS/ADRA requirements. As for the printing, there is markup to make sections print but not display: <span class="printonly">foo</span>. As you might imagine, there is also a way to make a section display but not print. What do you think of suppressing the display of the answers, but including them in a printout? --Jomegat (talk) 18:56, 20 November 2014 (EST)

Honestly, I like option b. The booklets most of the time actually quote the requirements and leave space for the answer to be written in. I think quoting the requirement and then linking to the answer is the best way to present the information. As for answers being included in a printout, it sounds interesting, but some type of message would have to be added to let the reader know. Sometimes a reader might only have two pages to print on, and suddenly they need four or five without knowing it. --w126jep (talk) 19:01, 20 November 2014 (EST)

I like showing the honor requirement where it is not quoted in the IA requirement - very good for the user. Following the translution idea that we can present repetitive info everywhere we need to show it I figured why not make the IA answers comprehensive instead of forcing the reader off to another area of the wiki. Some of these are "activity" type requirements, and across the project our answers on the "activity" requirements are often very weak. It's hard to give guidance on a 150 mile bike ride or on how to make a dive for example.JadeDragon (talk) 19:49, 20 November 2014 (EST)

What if we put the honor material in IA inside a collapsible box? My objection to having it in there as is, is that it breaks the typography - the honor requirements are sized for inclusion in an honor page, and I find them way too big for an IA page - they do not look like a subsection to an IA requirement, but in an IA page, that's what they are. That makes it difficult to separate the IA requirements from the honor requirements. I think a collapsible box might go a long way towards addressing that. Another approach would be to capture the honor requirements inside a single-cell, right-justified table set to ~80% width and with a light background color. --Jomegat (talk) 20:47, 20 November 2014 (EST)

Collapsible box --> excellent. With a link to the honor page. --w126jep (talk) 20:54, 20 November 2014 (EST)

Yup, let's try one. See how it looks. JadeDragon (talk) 21:17, 20 November 2014 (EST)

Editing User Pages

User pages are kind of like a person's own house - they should not be edited except by the owner. I don't know how W126jep feels about that, but I do know that I would not like it if someone else edited my userpage. --Jomegat (talk) 21:54, 24 November 2014 (EST)