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Ordering Division Honors & Completion Percentage of an Honor

Hey Jomegat or w126jep.

I have two questions for you on honors:

I have a few Pathfinders here that just recently completed an honor from another division. How does one go about ordering it? They are from South America and Australia. But they are not under the NAD [AdventSource].

My other question is, I am hearing rumors that if a person completes 80% of the honor they can receive the honor. Is this true and if so does it apply to classwork also?

--Ixoekea (talk) 05:53, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Hi Ixoekea, here are my answers:

1) We have a page in the Pathfinder Wiki that gives a general explanation about ordering and purchasing regional honors from other divisions found here (it should probably be updated a bit). The reality is that in order to receive the patch, you must contact any of the official vendors from that division. Many times this might be from stores within those countries (similar to AdventSource in the NAD), or it might be from local conference offices of these territories.

The only real way to know is to contact these conferences or stores. This can be done by e-mail or telephone. You would have to do some research to find out who to contact in those divisions. For the SAD, in order to contact them, you will have to either speak their native language (Portuguese or Spanish) or find some means of interpretation services. Or hope someone there speaks English!

I have some contacts within the SAD where I have purchased items before so I might be able to assist if you would like.

2) An honor is completed when all requirements have been fully satisfied. The patch is only awarded to those who have duly fulfilled all necessary requirements. I have never heard of this «80%» before, but it is completely untrue.

Some honors have requirements where you can choose between different options to complete; this might make it seem like you are only completing 80%, but in reality you are still satisfying all necessary requirements.

The same goes for IA curricula. All necessary requirements must be completed fully in order to be invested in that level. Each level has the basic requirements and the advanced requirements. If a Pathfinder is only completing the basic level, then there is much material in the booklet that he or she will not complete, since it is not necessary for basic level. If a Pathfinder wishes to be invested in the advanced level (and therefore receive the advanced ribbon bar), he or she must fulfill all advanced requirements as well. Again, this disparity might make it seem as if only 80% is being done, but everything necessary is being completed.

If this 80% rule were true (and it's not), how would you measure that 80%? If you have 10 questions, only complete 8? What if you have only two questions? Completing only one question would make it only 50% complete, not 80%. How would you choose which questions to complete?

Most honors have a «theoretical» and a «practical» component. For example, Duct Tape has questions about what is duct tape and how can you use it. It also has a part where you must actually build something with duct tape. So if only 80% were required to receive the patch, could a Pathfinder technically only complete the book answer work and not have to actually use duct tape?

This idea of 80% completion goes against the philosophy and purpose of the AY honors, which can be found here. If indeed you are in contact with people who think this is true, using tact and spiritual guidance, please let them now that this is not true and can be construed as dishonest.

I hope these answers are of value to you. I know it is long, but I wanted to try give you a clear and concise answer. --w126jep (talk) 20:52, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Hi w126jep

Thank you for clarifying those questions. I'm really curious to know where the people around here (Directors and Master Guides) are saying the 80%. I believe exactly what you said as that is why I was looking for a more correct answer. 80% could apply to all the research but not to the hands on experience. I'm curious to know where they came up with this decision. I know that some clubs here require the Pathfinders to also to write the final exam for each honour that the director would make up. Thanks for your answer it was very informative!

--Ixoekea (talk) 22:48, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Can you tell me how legit Pathfindershirts.com is?

--Ixoekea (talk) 23:00, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

PathfinderShirts has a long and tumultous history behind it. Long story short, they are a company based in Florida that basically provides a lot of custom-made club-centric material. They sell of lot of novelties and accessories where they kind of slap on the club logo you want: whistles with Adventurer logo, tie pins with MG logo, Medals, etc.

Some conferences have used them as a provider for conference-specific uniform accessories (Chesapeake uses them for an Adv. MG scarf; some conferences use them for non-sanctioned TLT scarves; California uses them for their Discovery Club; Florida used to use them for the 8-star MG logos). They duplicate much of what AdventSource sells by way of uniforms, but it is usually a little more expensive.

PathfinderShirts is not allowed to sell any IA emblems or other investiture material since they are not an official provider for the NAD. You can use them to buy lots of interesting accessories, but these things are usually not a required part of any uniform.

I have used them in the past for drill uniform accessories, Pathfinder of the Year medals, and other neat little accessories that I have given to Pathfinders just as novelty gifts for Investiture. I would not, however, recommend them as an official source for club materials or uniforms. --w126jep (talk) 00:32, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Series Category

I was toying with the idea of either adding a section or a category regarding to series. By series, I mean honors that deal with very similar themes or requirements, and can be taught close together. Most honors do not fall into a series category, but I think it might be helpful for the ones that do. Here are some series I can think of now:

First Aid series (Basic Rescue, Basic First Aid, Standard First Aid, CPR, etc.)
Creationism/Origins series (Creationism, Biblical Archaeology, Fossils, etc.)
Camping (Fire Building, Campcraft, Camping Skills, Tents, etc.)
Other possible series: bugs (or insects if you want to be technical), acrobatics, botany, Bible studies...

I wouldn't want to just start making up series willy nilly, but there are honors that have been taught together or close together for a while now throughout several clubs and conferences I have visited. This might give a guide or reference for anyone that might not realize they can teach several honors close together and use the same resources and materials.

What do you think? --w126jep (talk) 18:00, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

I think the idea has merit. --Jomegat (talk) 23:12, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

I like the idea, especially if someone goes to a Zoo or an aquarium, (Sports in school) etc, There are many honours that can be done in that one setting if one so chooses. It also bonuses on when you go to that setting and when you get home you find out another honor that could have been completed but now that you missed out it can be disappointing. --Ixoekea (talk) 01:42, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

HTML5video tag

Hey everyone,

The HTML5video tag no longer works. I have installed a new extension called Widgets along with a YouTube script that does the same thing (and with other scripts, we could do many other things as well). I've gone though the wiki and replaced all of the English language html5video tags, but I may have missed some. You can't just search for "HTML5video" because it's a tag, and the search results reveal nothing. :-/ So keep your eyes open for any strays I may have missed. The syntax for the widget is a bit easier:

Where that random string following the id= is the youtube video id. In the HTML5video tag, the id is between the start and end tags:

<HTML5video blah blah blah>DWef69ItVrU</HTML5video>

Jaceil, I'm going to dump the Spanish edits in your lap. Sorry. --Jomegat (talk) 19:48, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

Nice. I had meant to let you know about it a while back. I think I had been working on the Bats honor and realized that the tags no longer were functioning. I must have forgotten to tell you about it, though. I kind of figured, also, I would have to fix the Spanish counterparts... no worries, not too difficult. Any idea why the tags suddenly just went defunct? --w126jep (talk) 22:00, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

I've been puzzling over that, but haven't come to any solid conclusions. I do know that the extension has been deprecated and archived at mediawiki, but the only way they could disable it on our setup is if it relied on something they were hosting. Not a whole lot to be gained by chasing that one though, so I just installed Widgets instead. --Jomegat (talk) 22:22, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

Watch for Spam

I've re-enabled account creation on the wiki. I had disabled ~6months ago when we had a severe spam outbreak. It might come back. --Jomegat (talk) 20:41, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

Overlay or Superimpose template?

I wanted to try to put a giant X or some other image over the patch images of the SAD honors. Something like . This is so that the image is still observable to the user, but it will be completely obvious that the patch is not available through AdventSource. Is there some kind of template we can use that superimposes or overlays one image onto another? -- w126jep (talk) 12:16, 18 September 2018 (EDT)

Maybe. I'm looking into it. this looks promising (the packed-overlay mode), but it would require that we place the image in a gallery. That might not be a problem, but it might make it harder to get it to look right. The feature is available on our current installation. --Jomegat (talk) 17:34, 19 September 2018 (EDT)

Not available

I've been fooling around with it in template:honor_desc2, but so far I've not found the correct syntax. Feel free to hack. --Jomegat (talk) 18:00, 19 September 2018 (EDT)

Found a template on WP. --Jomegat (talk) 21:46, 20 September 2018 (EDT)

Checking that the superimpose template can be used without an overlay (which would ease the coding)..

Very nice. Haven't had too much time to check it out, but idea would be to include it in the honor desc for whenever it picks up an SAD honor. That should deter people from thinking they can get it fom AdventSource. I would still like for them to be able to see the patch if they want to click on it and check it out, but default should be a giant X. --w126jep (talk) 22:21, 20 September 2018 (EDT)

I originally tried using the superimpose template but it didn't seem to work when I tried it. Maybe I was outting the text in wrong... --w126jep (talk) 22:24, 20 September 2018 (EDT)

I've got something coded up in template:honor desc2. I've munged the honor name and category in the examples below because I can't remember if using honor_desc2 affects the database or not. I wouldn't want to inject nonsense into the indices. --Jomegat (talk) 22:28, 20 September 2018 (EDT)

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It still needs work before it can go live. The image isn't centered, and the row height is too big in the non-AdventSource case. Feel free to hack on it. I'm done tonight! --Jomegat (talk) 22:31, 20 September 2018 (EDT)

So I uploaded an image I think would be appropriate and get the message across to superimpose. However, I cannot figure out how to center the image. I don't know what caused the alignment to change. Also, I don't know why it doesn't seem to work for the "East American Division" version. If the image can be centered, I think this would be ready to go live and set up for SAD honors and the like. --w126jep (talk) 16:55, 8 October 2018 (EDT)

Hah - there was an undocumented argument to set the alignment. I set it to "center" and it is now centered. The "East American Division" was a stand-in for the NAD, and since its insignia_source argument was blank, it does not superimpose the unavailability notice. That is, it was a test of the NAD case. It doesn't select that based on the division, but rather, based on the insignia_source. To make it go live, all we need to do it copy-paste honor_desc2 to honor_desc. --Jomegat (talk) 23:15, 8 October 2018 (EDT)

And... done!

It flags several SPD honors as not available. I don't know if that's correct or not, but I think it might be. --Jomegat (talk) 23:20, 8 October 2018 (EDT)

Brilliant! I think it looks great and will definitely get the message across. I had originally wanted it possible to click on the patch from the table and see the full image; this is still possible, it's just hard to find a spot to click because the superimposed image covers almost all the patch. It can still be done around the edges though, and I am ok with that. --w126jep (talk) 07:32, 9 October 2018 (EDT)

Regional & ADRA honors with superimpose template

The superimpose template flags the SPD honors, but that is accurate, as the ones we have correctly marked, like Australian Birds or Folk Art, are not really available at AdventSource either. This makes me think about the regional honors. Would it make sense to now include them in an indexed list on their own page, with the superimposed image? They still wouldn't be included in the main count. Also ADRA? --w126jep (talk) 07:32, 9 October 2018 (EDT)

Yes, I think that makes perfect sense. --Jomegat (talk) 18:46, 9 October 2018 (EDT)

Renaming of honors and categories in Spanish (please excuse the dust)

You will see me renaming in Spanish lots of honors and categories and trying to fix subsequent pages and things they are linked to. This is due to the General Conference having published the Honors Poster (which can be found at PathfindersOnline) and changing the name of many honors and categories. AdventSource decided to update their Spanish versions to coincide and match the GC names.

This makes it cumbersome and time-consuming to change everything here on the Wiki, but I also like uniformity. Some of the changes make sense but many of them I do not agree with. Either way, just please excuse the mess if you see broken links, unfinished translations or differing things. Also, just grammatically, Spanish does not capitalize all words in a phrase as a title, only the first word. So I am trying to fix that at the same time too. --w126jep (talk) 17:38, 2 January 2019 (EST)

Wikibooks Pathfinder Honor Answers Update and Updated Honors Workbook

Hello all,

2 questions:

1) I have 2 honors workbook, one from 2000 (or so) and one from 2014. However, there have been some new honors added since 2014 (i.e. Mobile Technology honor, in 2016). Is there an updated honor workbook coming to include the newer honors from 2014 onward, such as the Mobile Technology honor (and others)?

2) The current Wikibooks Pathfinder Honor Answers website isn't updated to reflect a lot of the newer honors, even the 2014 Honors book. Will the Wikibooks website be updated anytime soon?

If we are to broaden our young people's minds and help them grow, us leaders to keep up with the pace and bring everything up-to-date.

Thanks for the reply! ~ Kris

Hi Kris and welcome to the Wiki! Great questions. Here are my responses, you might get other responses from others too:

1) The two workbooks you have, are they from the General Conference or from AdventSource? I ask because the GC Honors has not been updated since their last 2014 edition. However, AdventSource prints material specifically for the North American Division and usually has their material up to date, according to the NAD. I would not know when the GC plans to update their material, especially since Andrés Peralta took over as the new world leader for clubs and is still trying to learn as much as he can. Many times the GC & NAD requirements can differ, so that might also be a discrepancy you also see; this wouldn't necessarily mean one is outdated, only that different versions exist according to their region.

2) This Wiki Answer Book is actually the most updated honors resource in the world. It is comprised of volunteers within the Pathfinder community who are constantly updating the content and keeping it to the day. If you are referring to the previous Wikibooks version, that is the old site and is no longer maintained. There is a message on the front page stating that it was moved to this Wiki.

I hope that helps clarify some things for you. If you still have some doubts, express them here and myself and others will answer to the best of our knowledge! --w126jep (talk) 00:58, 26 May 2019 (EDT)

@@ Line 176: / Line 176: @@
 Thanks for the reply!
 ~ Kris
+:Hi Kris and welcome to the Wiki! Great questions. Here are my responses, you might get other responses from others too:
+:1) The two workbooks you have, are they from the General Conference or from Advent''Source''? I ask because the GC Honors has not been updated since their last 2014 edition. However, Advent''Source'' prints material specifically for the North American Division and usually has their material up to date, according to the NAD. I would not know when the GC plans to update their material, especially since Andrés Peralta took over as the new world leader for clubs and is still trying to learn as much as he can. Many times the GC & NAD requirements can differ, so that might also be a discrepancy you also see; this wouldn't necessarily mean one is outdated, only that different versions exist according to their region.
+:2) This Wiki Answer Book is actually the most updated honors resource in the world. It is comprised of volunteers within the Pathfinder community who are constantly updating the content and keeping it to the day. If you are referring to the previous [https://en.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book Wikibooks] version, that is the old site and is no longer maintained. There is a message on the front page stating that it was moved to this Wiki.
+:I hope that helps clarify some things for you. If you still have some doubts, express them here and myself and others will answer to the best of our knowledge! --[[User:W126jep|w126jep]] ([[User talk:W126jep|talk]]) 00:58, 26 May 2019 (EDT)