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Template Brackets and Translation

Just for future reference, please, whenever including a template that has information that spans more than a paragraph, please do one of the following: either keep it all together with no spaces between paragraphs or include the opening and closing brackets in their own line. For example:

{{templatename
info info info
info info info info
Other paragraph other paragraph}}

OR

{{

templatename
info info info
info info info info
Other paragraph other paragraph

}}

I ask this because when attempting to translate, if there is a break anywhere between the opening and closing brackets, the software will divide each of these separations into translatable chunks. When this happens, the software does not recognize that the template should all go together and be seen as one unit. I then cannot properly translate these chunks because the translation software will not save the translation, thinking there is an error.

I have had to go in every once in a while and edit the text to either separate or put together the template brackets so that I might be able to properly save the translation. If it sounds confusing, just let me know and I will try to explain it better. Thanks!

--w126jep (talk) 07:51, 16 December 2015 (EST)

Can you provide a link to an edit diff that shows what you did to fix one? That would be the easiest way to explain it. --Jomegat (talk) 22:36, 16 December 2015 (EST)

Here is an example of an edit I did, separating the opening and closing brackets into their own lines. Before I made the edit, the chunks marked to translate were separated into two; the chunk before "|range" and the chunk after it. These are parts, though, of the same template. For some odd reason, the software will not save the translation chunk if it is missing a pair of brackets. I have to edit it so that the brackets are either on their own separate lines (thereby making each pair of brackets their own translatable chunk) or eliminate any spaces between paragraphs so that the chunk includes both pairs of brackets. --w126jep (talk) 21:56, 17 December 2015 (EST)

Year 2016

New Year! New blessings! Let's make 2016 one of the best years and have this Wiki up to 100% before 2017! RABaker96 already has us started off with awesome contributions to the Sand honor! Nicely done! --w126jep (talk) 18:19, 1 January 2016 (EST)

Your note spurred me to add the answers to Water Science & Advanced using the material submitted to the NAD when the honor was proposed. I've got material for all the 2015 honors if anyone else wants to make use of it for adding answers to other honors. Drop me a note and I'll send it to you. --Jomegat (talk) 22:31, 1 January 2016 (EST)

That's great! Let's keep going and see if we can get others on board! --w126jep (talk) 16:37, 2 January 2016 (EST)

Retired Insignia Page

I have been wanting to create this page for a long time, as previously discussed in another thread. I finally decided to go ahead and just get it started and see where it goes from there. I'm not sure where a link to it would belong, so I haven't put one up yet. My hope is that it will also be a page with useful information for the Adventist Youth Ministries Museum that Dixie Plata and others are collaborating on.

I still have some more patches around that I want to put up and I know that there are people out there who could definitely contribute too! If you're one of them, upload those images! If anyone has any ideas on how to improve the look, style, formatting, wording, etc., be my guest. I just wanted to get this thing going. w126jep (talk) 00:48, 30 January 2016 (EST)

This is a nice addition! --Jomegat (talk) 19:30, 30 January 2016 (EST)

Where would a link to this page be most suitable? We need community members to upload outdated images, but if they can't get to this page, it will not happen. w126jep (talk) 12:42, 3 February 2016 (EST)

Maybe on the main Honor index page. I've been thinking that we might want to drop the huge image of the key-hand-off from there. I like the image, and it was developed as the AYHAB book cover. But online, do we really need a cover? We could also leave it there but reduce it in size substantially. --Jomegat (talk) 13:09, 4 February 2016 (EST)

I like the image also. I would vote to reduce the size, or even refit it as a banner, those that are really wide across. --w126jep (talk) 16:07, 4 February 2016 (EST)

Additional Information?

A couple questions here. I know some of them would take quite a while before they could even be started on. but its a thought.

What about possibly creating a link to Other information. Ie: Ay Story, Pathfinder Manual, The Happy Path, Church Heritage etc? and maybe possibly adding on Pathfinder/Master Guide Leadership training courses(The Power points)?

Is there a page set up for Adventurer's honours and the Investiture for them?

Is it possible to incorporate the honours into a Powerpoint slide presentation that could be available for some clubs to use as a guide for teaching the honours?

Ixoekea (talk) 03:42, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

All of those are excellent ideas, but we would need to get permission from the copyright holders to add that material here (though if you already know where it exists online, we could certainly add a link to that). There is an Adventurers project over on Wikibooks (which is where this started before the NAD adopted us). It would be nice if they would come over here as well. I have invited them at the NAD level, and though they seemed interested, that's as far as it went. I'll bring it up again in January during the annual meeting, and see if they are interested in having the person who did the work on Wikibooks move that work over here.

There is nothing stopping anyone from creating Powerpoints and uploading them here. If you click on the "Upload file" link in the left panel, you will see that ppt is an acceptable file type. Then you can add it to a page the same way you'd add an image [[File:filename.ppt]]. I've thought about doing that myself several times, but my ppt's always look like they were made by a ppt novice (which is in fact, quite true!)

Another concept I've been playing with is making videos. We can already embed youtube videos here, but more than that, we can upload them here as well.

Thanks for sharing your ideas! This is how we get better. --Jomegat (talk) 13:16, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

Welcome to the Wiki, Ixoekea! Excited to have you help us collaborating. I think Jomegat already did a good job of answering your questions. I just wanted to mention about the Leadership Training PowerPoints.

I myself have been an instructor at Leadership Training in a few different conferences. I always have to tweak or change my presentations when presenting in different conferences, because much of the material can be region-specific. For example, I was teaching in one conference the rules of competing in a marching competition. In this certain conference, only Pathfinders or TLTs could be the drill instructors and participate in marching competitions. Yet in another conference where I taught the same thing, their conference allowed adults, directors, and Master Guides to be instructors and participate. Different conferences also have to adhere to different laws according to their region, thus trainings on rules for child abuse, background checks, etc. will vary as well.

If you look at the new AYMT material provided by the NAD (here is the link: AYMT Training), their seminar descriptions just give a broad summary of what should be covered in that particular seminar. This was done on purpose so that local leaders can adapt material to suit the needs of their local clubs and churches.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that we technically could put up training seminars, but the NAD is so vast and diverse that it probably wouldn't really assist anyone in actually learning the material they need to know. For example, a training seminar from British Columbia on how to camp during the winter months would probably not really benefit a club from Miami, Florida! This is why each conference is supposed to hold Leadership Conventions or similar at least once a year.

Even so, I do like your idea of providing PPTs for the honors. That is something that I think would be greatly beneficial to many.

Blessings and again, welcome! --w126jep (talk) 21:35, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome W126jep and thanks for clarifying on the AYMT material! :)

The Other Category

With the expansion of the wiki to include MG, silver & gold awards, and the pastor's pin (et al), it would be better if we created a new template rather than use the honor_desc (which stands for honor descriptor) template. I haven't noticed any problems yet, but all the indices are built now by extracting information from honor_desc. In other words, we don't add things to the indices - they get added automatically when a page uses the honor_desc template. This means there's a good chance we could add non-honors to the indices by accident. I think setting the category to "Other" has prevented this so far, but I'd rather not stress the structure by adding things to it that it was not intended to support. By using a new template, we could also change the color scheme (and layout) so that people won't think that the pastor's pin or MG are just different honors. The template is already complicated enough, so I really don't want to adjust it to accommodate a new type of page. Thoughts? --Jomegat (talk) 20:19, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

I was thinking that last night. I just wasn't quite sure how to create the template. Colour scheme we could go with grey. Its a pretty neutral colour. We really don't need the date of when it was created unless your using it for trivial. I think all of these are approved by the GC, unless there are other awards in other countries. But we could expand that category by quite a bit. There is the TLT, AYMT, BST program we could put the requirements on. Even Scribe and Captain pins could be put into the category. I find the structure of the honours a lot easyier to read than the Retired Honour Table. Could we throw the Oshkosh pins and badges in here or would they be going into retired badges? There is no need of skill level for these.

I noticed there was a class called Pioneer and Navigator. Should those go in retired or in other??

These two classes are actual classes used only in the Florida Conference, hence they shouldn't go in the retired section. They might be able to go in the Other section, but they're not like the others. They're more like the MG category or IA in that they are entire curricula. But they definitely don't go in the retired section. --w126jep (talk) 20:34, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

If we really wanted to really expand the categories. We could do a category for Camporee Patches within conferences. But that might be a little to excessive! It would have to be seperated by state/provincial and adding year to it. Ixoekea (talk) 20:55, 19 November 2016

A page for camporee patches would be insanely difficult to complete with so many conferences and territories, although I am all for it. --w126jep (talk) 20:34, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

I added a section a while ago to the website I run for different conference patches for Pathfinders all around the world. It is all in Spanish, but you can know where the patches are from by their geographical region. It is pretty complete, but still needs lots of work. You can check it out here. Check it out and let me know what you think. --w126jep (talk) 02:36, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

If you'd like to sketch something up, I could code it. I just don't have the energy to be creative right now. --Jomegat (talk) 02:12, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Having a new template sounds like a good idea. I would also propose that Ixoekea come up with something as I am curious to see what he has in mind. --w126jep (talk) 20:34, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Already Working on it, I'm going to try and give the coding a try first, I think I got it working in a different category. I wanted to keep the same format so it looks the same of the rest. I just changed the category name. Ixoekea (talk) 20:35, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Ordering Division Honors & Completion Percentage of an Honor

Hey Jomegat or w126jep.

I have two questions for you on honors:

I have a few Pathfinders here that just recently completed an honor from another division. How does one go about ordering it? They are from South America and Australia. But they are not under the NAD [AdventSource].

My other question is, I am hearing rumors that if a person completes 80% of the honor they can receive the honor. Is this true and if so does it apply to classwork also?

--Ixoekea (talk) 05:53, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Hi Ixoekea, here are my answers:

1) We have a page in the Pathfinder Wiki that gives a general explanation about ordering and purchasing regional honors from other divisions found here (it should probably be updated a bit). The reality is that in order to receive the patch, you must contact any of the official vendors from that division. Many times this might be from stores within those countries (similar to AdventSource in the NAD), or it might be from local conference offices of these territories.

The only real way to know is to contact these conferences or stores. This can be done by e-mail or telephone. You would have to do some research to find out who to contact in those divisions. For the SAD, in order to contact them, you will have to either speak their native language (Portuguese or Spanish) or find some means of interpretation services. Or hope someone there speaks English!

I have some contacts within the SAD where I have purchased items before so I might be able to assist if you would like.

2) An honor is completed when all requirements have been fully satisfied. The patch is only awarded to those who have duly fulfilled all necessary requirements. I have never heard of this «80%» before, but it is completely untrue.

Some honors have requirements where you can choose between different options to complete; this might make it seem like you are only completing 80%, but in reality you are still satisfying all necessary requirements.

The same goes for IA curricula. All necessary requirements must be completed fully in order to be invested in that level. Each level has the basic requirements and the advanced requirements. If a Pathfinder is only completing the basic level, then there is much material in the booklet that he or she will not complete, since it is not necessary for basic level. If a Pathfinder wishes to be invested in the advanced level (and therefore receive the advanced ribbon bar), he or she must fulfill all advanced requirements as well. Again, this disparity might make it seem as if only 80% is being done, but everything necessary is being completed.

If this 80% rule were true (and it's not), how would you measure that 80%? If you have 10 questions, only complete 8? What if you have only two questions? Completing only one question would make it only 50% complete, not 80%. How would you choose which questions to complete?

Most honors have a «theoretical» and a «practical» component. For example, Duct Tape has questions about what is duct tape and how can you use it. It also has a part where you must actually build something with duct tape. So if only 80% were required to receive the patch, could a Pathfinder technically only complete the book answer work and not have to actually use duct tape?

This idea of 80% completion goes against the philosophy and purpose of the AY honors, which can be found here. If indeed you are in contact with people who think this is true, using tact and spiritual guidance, please let them now that this is not true and can be construed as dishonest.

I hope these answers are of value to you. I know it is long, but I wanted to try give you a clear and concise answer. --w126jep (talk) 20:52, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Hi w126jep

Thank you for clarifying those questions. I'm really curious to know where the people around here (Directors and Master Guides) are saying the 80%. I believe exactly what you said as that is why I was looking for a more correct answer. 80% could apply to all the research but not to the hands on experience. I'm curious to know where they came up with this decision. I know that some clubs here require the Pathfinders to also to write the final exam for each honour that the director would make up. Thanks for your answer it was very informative!

--Ixoekea (talk) 22:48, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Can you tell me how legit Pathfindershirts.com is?

--Ixoekea (talk) 23:00, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

PathfinderShirts has a long and tumultous history behind it. Long story short, they are a company based in Florida that basically provides a lot of custom-made club-centric material. They sell of lot of novelties and accessories where they kind of slap on the club logo you want: whistles with Adventurer logo, tie pins with MG logo, Medals, etc.

Some conferences have used them as a provider for conference-specific uniform accessories (Chesapeake uses them for an Adv. MG scarf; some conferences use them for non-sanctioned TLT scarves; California uses them for their Discovery Club; Florida used to use them for the 8-star MG logos). They duplicate much of what AdventSource sells by way of uniforms, but it is usually a little more expensive.

PathfinderShirts is not allowed to sell any IA emblems or other investiture material since they are not an official provider for the NAD. You can use them to buy lots of interesting accessories, but these things are usually not a required part of any uniform.

I have used them in the past for drill uniform accessories, Pathfinder of the Year medals, and other neat little accessories that I have given to Pathfinders just as novelty gifts for Investiture. I would not, however, recommend them as an official source for club materials or uniforms. --w126jep (talk) 00:32, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Series Category

I was toying with the idea of either adding a section or a category regarding to series. By series, I mean honors that deal with very similar themes or requirements, and can be taught close together. Most honors do not fall into a series category, but I think it might be helpful for the ones that do. Here are some series I can think of now:

• First Aid series (Basic Rescue, Basic First Aid, Standard First Aid, CPR, etc.)
• Creationism/Origins series (Creationism, Biblical Archaeology, Fossils, etc.)
• Camping (Fire Building, Campcraft, Camping Skills, Tents, etc.)
• Other possible series: bugs (or insects if you want to be technical), acrobatics, botany, Bible studies...

I wouldn't want to just start making up series willy nilly, but there are honors that have been taught together or close together for a while now throughout several clubs and conferences I have visited. This might give a guide or reference for anyone that might not realize they can teach several honors close together and use the same resources and materials.

What do you think? --w126jep (talk) 18:00, 2 November 2017 (UTC)